Fascial stretching

[Minime]

I did a search here to see if it has been discussed before, but couldn't find anything, so I though I'd bring up the subject...

I read this theory about muscle memory called the "bag theory", that essentially, the muscle grows rapidly until there is no more room in the fascia surrounding it. To speed up hypertrophy, you could use heavy stretching to help expand the fascia. For example, my bicep is lagging, and I think one of the reasons is that the muscle belly is very "short", so to speak, it's mostly just connective tissue. So I would then, according to this theory, be able to expand the muscle belly as well as give it more room to grow thicker by applying heavy weighted stretching after every working set of, say, hammer curls.

(an article on the subject: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/fascialstretching.htm)

However, I haven't seen anything to back this up. What do you guys think?

 

[jwbond]

There are a lot of guys that stretching is key to filling out to your genetic max...

DC uses weighted stretches, which I did for a bit, but I don't think I gave it a fair shot since I was doing a DC routine that had me over training as a natural.

 

[Totentanz]

I did DC and the stretches didn't seem to add anything for me. Although, to be fair, doing DC and following a bulking diet, I did have some of the best gains that I've experienced in a long time. However, I don't think this was due to the stretches... I think it was because I haven't properly bulked in a long time.
If anything, I think the stretches actually decreased my flexibility, as my upper body flexibility was reduced from my DC run.

 

[Minime]

Reduced flexibility from stretching? That sounds a bit weird. Are you sure it wasn't all the new mass getting in the way?

 

[Totentanz]

It's possible, but if the loaded stretches were beneficial, I expected my flexibility to at least be maintained...

One other thing about stretches - they really suck to do. You will be in hell for the duration of the stretch.

If you really want to try them out though, I know a few good resources for how to do them for various muscle groups. Most of this information can be found at intensemuscle.com.

 

[QuantumPositron]

Minime,

See the links in my post 10's and Why They May be the Best

The IFBB pro bodybuilder in the video explains that, in his view, by working the muscle to get "the pump" the blood pushes into the muscle and causes it to stretch the fascia. In the NSCA paper the author explains how doing 10's causes the vessels (which carry blood away from the muscle) to close off, and that's why during a "pump" the muscle feels really tight. Blood accumulates in the muscle and seeps into the interstitial (between the cell) fluid. Its all in the NSCA paper. In the 2nd bodybuilding article the author explains the notion behind the pump and stretching fascia. Basically you induce the pump and then do stretches. The idea is to push blood into the muscle and then stretch the fascia while the fluid is built up.

The idea is very interesting to me. Its certainly been around a long time and its still in pro bodybuilding today as evidenced by the IFBB pro who explains it. I have seen video footage of Gunter working on his chest with Charles Glass. After every set Gunter flexes his pecs really hard. Charles explained to the camera that what Gunter is trying to do is push blood into the muscle.

I have not tried the method yet but I am eager to figure it out. I have read from many different, unassociated sources that one can get big without necessarily getting strong. Scott Abel who has been around bodybuilding for decades has commented that many of the guys he has worked out with have gotten big with light weights. He attests to having done this himself. Allan Cosgrove, who is affiliated with EliteFTS and the Westside Barbell Club, mentions that Serge Nubret (sp?) would build his arms doing ladders with 25 lb concentration curls! Meanwhile Charles Poliquin, a strength coach, has commented that he has known four Mr. Olympia competitors who couldn't bench over 315. If these accounts are accurate it may suggest that the pump method is not so foolish afterall. I admit to having never understood it until I ran into some of it last week. Bear in mind that the people who seem to acclaim it also demonstrate mesomorphia - muscle building genes - and so may respond better to it than you or I especially since they are so sensitive to tension.

The only way to know is get as much quality information as possible, especially in regards to the technique, and employ it rigorously for a length of time. Preferably you should find someone who uses it or has used it for a while and is capable of explaining it to you in an intelligent way. I am really interested in this myself so please, keep in touch. I'll be sure to post anything more that I find.

 

[Lol]

QP: I'm pretty sure that using lower loads and lots of volume is what you can get away with to grow muscle when you are juicing. I don't think you can expect similar results as a natty. Serge Nubret always claims he was/is natural. Right, and I'm an astronaut.

 

[TunnelRat]

The best facial stretching routine I've seen is the one by Jim Carrey...

 

[imported_electric]

hahhaha, TR, I kept reading "facial" stretching but was to embarrassed to post it.

 

[Minime]

Totentanz: I'll check out the site.

About the low weight/high rep/high volume, I'd have to agree with Lol - on steroids you could probably get away with that. I wouldn't trust advice from an IFBB pro to work for anyone but an IFBB pro...

Anyway, doing fascial stretching still seems like an interesting thought. Lacking any research on the subject, I thought I'd just go ahead and try it out for some of my muscle groups that seem reluctant to grow, and see if there is any significant difference. The problem I see is getting a muscle pumped up on just one or two working sets, doing HST. One way around could be to do the isolation work on, for example, my biceps, just once a week, and do more sets. Or perhaps I should try some pump-increasing supplement? (NO2)

TunnelRat: with those stretches Jim will have the jawline of a Jay Cutler in no time!