I
imported_etothepii
Guest
My 5 rm for atg squats is 225. My first time with box squats, I did 255 (5 sets of 5), and it was pretty easy.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
<div>
(mikeynov @ Sep. 11 2007,14:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What height box?</div>
I actually used my bench. I haven't measured it, but it touched right in the middle of the back of my knee.
(mikeynov @ Sep. 11 2007,14:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What height box?</div>
I actually used my bench. I haven't measured it, but it touched right in the middle of the back of my knee.
Eto, a few more questions for you:
What form did you use? ie. Was it touch-and-go or a full sit-down and then off again?
Did you straddle the bench or just have it parallel with the bar?
I have thought about doing some of these to see how my loads compare to ATG squatting.
I have no idea if there's a recommended height for a box squat 'box'. My bench is 44cm to the top of the padding which is just below my knee without shoes on (just checked it).
What form did you use? ie. Was it touch-and-go or a full sit-down and then off again?
Did you straddle the bench or just have it parallel with the bar?
I have thought about doing some of these to see how my loads compare to ATG squatting.
I have no idea if there's a recommended height for a box squat 'box'. My bench is 44cm to the top of the padding which is just below my knee without shoes on (just checked it).
Fausto
HST Expert
Interesting thread!
I use my bench too, but put it a notch downwards, about 15 dregrees or so down, so it is just lower than normal flat bench, allows for a full 90 degree knee-bend .
I do a full sit down, but for a very short period, I feel this enables me to use my quads better (damn...they sore for two days after - although this is partly my fault as the last time I did squats was a full 7 daus ago).
I definitelly straddled the bench, with a wider stance than the normal ATG squat.
Poundage? Well, let's just say my very best ATG was 100 Kg for 5, with a partner standing by holding my belt (just holding, not pulling...does something to the mind), and for box squats my best was 140 Kg, big difference IMO.
I also found that I don't need a "wedge" under my heels as I do with ATG squats, flat foot was perfect!
I use my bench too, but put it a notch downwards, about 15 dregrees or so down, so it is just lower than normal flat bench, allows for a full 90 degree knee-bend .
I do a full sit down, but for a very short period, I feel this enables me to use my quads better (damn...they sore for two days after - although this is partly my fault as the last time I did squats was a full 7 daus ago).
I definitelly straddled the bench, with a wider stance than the normal ATG squat.
Poundage? Well, let's just say my very best ATG was 100 Kg for 5, with a partner standing by holding my belt (just holding, not pulling...does something to the mind), and for box squats my best was 140 Kg, big difference IMO.
I also found that I don't need a "wedge" under my heels as I do with ATG squats, flat foot was perfect!
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
I used the advice of a student of mine and verified it with a coworker who is also a high school football coach (former college player too). My bench seems to be the right height, legs slightly above parallel when I sit. My feet are in front of me, not straddled. I sit, do a slight rock back, then forward and stand up. I keep the core solid as to prevent haunching over and bending the spine.
To test the waters, I first did an unloaded bar -- just to get the feel of what would be happening. Then did 135 lbs -- easy. Then 205 -- easy. Then 225, my atg 5rm -- easy, then upped it to 255. Felt heavy on my shoulders, but the squat was still very easy. I'm guessing I can get to 300+ in a few workouts.
I'm curious to see how that will effect my atg when I go back to it.
To test the waters, I first did an unloaded bar -- just to get the feel of what would be happening. Then did 135 lbs -- easy. Then 205 -- easy. Then 225, my atg 5rm -- easy, then upped it to 255. Felt heavy on my shoulders, but the squat was still very easy. I'm guessing I can get to 300+ in a few workouts.
I'm curious to see how that will effect my atg when I go back to it.
<div>
(etothepii @ Sep. 12 2007,13:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I used the advice of a student of mine and verified it with a coworker who is also a high school football coach (former college player too). My bench seems to be the right height, legs slightly above parallel when I sit. My feet are in front of me, not straddled. I sit, do a slight rock back, then forward and stand up. I keep the core solid as to prevent haunching over and bending the spine.
To test the waters, I first did an unloaded bar -- just to get the feel of what would be happening. Then did 135 lbs -- easy. Then 205 -- easy. Then 225, my atg 5rm -- easy, then upped it to 255. Felt heavy on my shoulders, but the squat was still very easy. I'm guessing I can get to 300+ in a few workouts.
I'm curious to see how that will effect my atg when I go back to it.</div>
There is no "right" height for a box squat, it can be anything from high (above parallel) to low (below parallel), within reason.
Also, bear in mind I'm defining parallel as the following, where the crease of the hip falls below the top of the knee:
Of course, most people aren't squatting this low, either because of ego (every inch past some point becomes a mile, and many people would probably have to drop their squats by 100+ lbs by going this low) or not knowing better.
But yah, even in the context of a box, there is no "box height" that is universal. In principle, you'd want to box squat to at least parallel, which would probably imply a height of, say, ~12-15" depending on limb lengths and so forth for an average joe. The average bench for bench presses is usually well above this height.
(etothepii @ Sep. 12 2007,13:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I used the advice of a student of mine and verified it with a coworker who is also a high school football coach (former college player too). My bench seems to be the right height, legs slightly above parallel when I sit. My feet are in front of me, not straddled. I sit, do a slight rock back, then forward and stand up. I keep the core solid as to prevent haunching over and bending the spine.
To test the waters, I first did an unloaded bar -- just to get the feel of what would be happening. Then did 135 lbs -- easy. Then 205 -- easy. Then 225, my atg 5rm -- easy, then upped it to 255. Felt heavy on my shoulders, but the squat was still very easy. I'm guessing I can get to 300+ in a few workouts.
I'm curious to see how that will effect my atg when I go back to it.</div>
There is no "right" height for a box squat, it can be anything from high (above parallel) to low (below parallel), within reason.
Also, bear in mind I'm defining parallel as the following, where the crease of the hip falls below the top of the knee:
Of course, most people aren't squatting this low, either because of ego (every inch past some point becomes a mile, and many people would probably have to drop their squats by 100+ lbs by going this low) or not knowing better.
But yah, even in the context of a box, there is no "box height" that is universal. In principle, you'd want to box squat to at least parallel, which would probably imply a height of, say, ~12-15" depending on limb lengths and so forth for an average joe. The average bench for bench presses is usually well above this height.
the_dark_master
New Member
Bear in mind that close stance/slightly higher than parallel/rocking & foot stompin' is "westside oldschool"
Loui's modern take is wide stance, parallel or lower, relax hips & push off through the heels... (Not forgetting the ol' chains)
The most important aspect is that you "sit-back" onto the box. One of the quickest ways to learn this is Tabata front [box] squats, using a light weight of course. The FS teaches you to keep your head up, sit back and shins vertical.
Loui's modern take is wide stance, parallel or lower, relax hips & push off through the heels... (Not forgetting the ol' chains)
The most important aspect is that you "sit-back" onto the box. One of the quickest ways to learn this is Tabata front [box] squats, using a light weight of course. The FS teaches you to keep your head up, sit back and shins vertical.
bgates1654
New Member
I tried some box squats back when I was still trying to squat 225 for the first time. I had no spotter so I was afraid to try it on my own. I set a box up that was an inch or so above A2G. I figured with a box I could bail on the bar pretty easy without destroying my knees. Man coming off that box (not touch and go) was harder than doing it regular. The stretch reflex really helps.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
My bench is pretty high, about 20 inches. But today I did 275 pounds. My legs asked for more, but my core was pretty well taxed. Next time I do them, I'll back off on the weight a little, but lower my seat (somehow, I'll find something).
Fausto
HST Expert
Guys
I'd say the ideal height is about as Mikey pointed out just below the red line on diagram A, which is slightly above parallel, what i normally do is to set my bench onto a 15 degree negative (i.o.w. a decline bench setting., then adjust it slightly with some wooden blocks), comes to about parallel, feels really great!
As Eto points out though, it takes a while before your back gets used to the extra pressure, in which case it might not be a bad idea to do some good mornings, hyperextensions or even 1/4 squats to strengthen the back, it really feels compressed
I'd say the ideal height is about as Mikey pointed out just below the red line on diagram A, which is slightly above parallel, what i normally do is to set my bench onto a 15 degree negative (i.o.w. a decline bench setting., then adjust it slightly with some wooden blocks), comes to about parallel, feels really great!
As Eto points out though, it takes a while before your back gets used to the extra pressure, in which case it might not be a bad idea to do some good mornings, hyperextensions or even 1/4 squats to strengthen the back, it really feels compressed
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My bench is pretty high, about 20 inches</div>
I did box squats a couple of cycles ago and cut some lengths of 4x6 to stand on to effectively shorten the height of the bench. Straddling the bench, the six inch width was more than stable enough. You might try something like that if you can't get your bench low enough.
I did box squats a couple of cycles ago and cut some lengths of 4x6 to stand on to effectively shorten the height of the bench. Straddling the bench, the six inch width was more than stable enough. You might try something like that if you can't get your bench low enough.
I'm curious about the theory behind box squats. Is it so you can consistently squat to a specific depth? Is it for safety? I used to do them many years ago for both of the above reasons, but now that I'm (much) older and just getting back into weight training after a several year lay off I'm concerned about the safety of this exercise. Here's my concern - if you inadvertently come down too fast and hit the bench, your spine is going to incur a tremendous amount of pressure. If you use the bench to sit and pause a moment to increase the intensity, your spine is also under a considerable amount (maybe even a dangerous amount) of pressure caught between the bench under your butt and the weight on your shoulders. Wouldn't a much safer alternative be to set the bars on a power rack to the depth you want to go?
Phil
Phil
Fausto
HST Expert
Phil
Box squats help with ATG strength, if you check Louis Simmons he advocates their use to increase strength. The other side of the coin is that one can lift much more...thus the strength factor. In my case it is a 40% difference, that is huge IMO.
One has to be very careful with one's back of course, keep back and abs tight and not release this when you sit, as if the box was not there.
Box squats help with ATG strength, if you check Louis Simmons he advocates their use to increase strength. The other side of the coin is that one can lift much more...thus the strength factor. In my case it is a 40% difference, that is huge IMO.
One has to be very careful with one's back of course, keep back and abs tight and not release this when you sit, as if the box was not there.