finished in 25 minutes ?

S

smartin999

New Member
hi,

as i do NO leg-workout (injury-reasons) in my HST i have the following question:

in the last 2 workouts of the 10's and 5's i am reducing (as recommended) number of sets to 1 for every exercise.

with that and NO legs i am finished with my workout after 20-25 minutes which is not very much. so this means only 7 sets for this workout ! 2 for chest, 2 for back, 1 shoulder, 1 biceps, 1 triceps.

how long is your workout at this stage (including legs of course).

reg, Martin
 
Martin,
 Leg exercises generally take longer to set up, just that fact alone can add 10-15 mins to the workout.

 I generally do 2 sets for the 10's and 3 for the 5's

 10's are usually about an hour (including the setup time)

 5's about 1.5 hrs., also including the setup time. I also add arm iso's in the 5's so that adds a little time.

 Without any leg exercises, I suspect your workout time isn't that excessively short.
 
<div>
(adb1x1 @ May 27 2009,9:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Martin,
 Leg exercises generally take longer to set up, just that fact alone can add 10-15 mins to the workout.

 I generally do 2 sets for the 10's and 3 for the 5's

 10's are usually about an hour (including the setup time)

 5's about 1.5 hrs., also including the setup time. I also add arm iso's in the 5's so that adds a little time.

 Without any leg exercises, I suspect your workout time isn't that excessively short.</div>
hello,

sorry, but 1.5 hrs(!!!!!!) seems muuuuuch to long for me. i can't believe that !

your rest must be 5 minutes between every set to reach 1.5 hrs !

am i wrong ?
 
If weights are light I use 1-1:30 minute rest between sets, when things get heavy I use 5 minutes, even more between RMs sets. I want strength to limit the load, not fatigue. So depending on the loads used the workout can last 30 minutes up to over an hour. If things start to get too much longer than an hour, I start dropping sets (starting with the isos), although 1 1/2 hours is not really impossible on a very heavy day.
 
<div>
(smartin999 @ May 27 2009,3:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hello,

sorry, but 1.5 hrs(!!!!!!) seems muuuuuch to long for me. i can't believe that !

your rest must be 5 minutes between every set to reach 1.5 hrs !

am i wrong ?</div>
Remember that this 1.5 hrs includes the setup time. Depending on how busy the gym is, that might be near 20 mins (I'm slow sometimes too, especially at the end of the cycle when I'm more than ready to SD).

 Rest is usually around 2 mins, but near the end of the 5's, that might get extended on some exercises.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">in the last 2 workouts of the 10's and 5's i am reducing (as recommended) number of sets to 1 for every exercise. </div>

Hey Smart -- only one set for every exercise at the end of 10's and 5's? I have not heard that one before. It doesn't make sense to me. Are you sure you got that right? and more importantly, Why would one do that?

Bob
 
<div>
(Bob Evans @ May 28 2009,9:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">in the last 2 workouts of the 10's and 5's i am reducing (as recommended) number of sets to 1 for every exercise. </div>

Hey Smart  --  only one set for every exercise at the end of 10's and 5's?  I have not heard that one before.  It doesn't make sense to me.  Are you sure you got that right?  and more importantly,  Why would one do that?

Bob</div>
thats one of the basics in 'hst school'
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just read trough many hst resources in the internet. or just download the excel-sheet-plan here on www.hypertrophy-specific.info. there you also have 1 set at the end of the 10's and the 5's.

thats the way i 'learned' hst. i have gone trough about 7 circles now and have done it like that for a long time.

Smartin
 
Yeah I have always done 1 set of 15s, 2 sets of 10s, and 3 sets of 5s.

Though I used to read the forum a lot I gotta admit I don't read it as religiously as I did my first few years of HST...so maybe I missed something. What is the logic of only doing one set for the last day of your 10s or 5s?

Bob
 
1 set = no growth...In my humble opinion unless you are a extreme newbie.

There has to be some TUT...by hey its just my opinon
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<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ May 28 2009,5:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1 set = no growth...In my humble opinion unless you are a extreme newbie.

There has to be some TUT...by hey its just my opinon
biggrin.gif
</div>
well, you may be right !

but i never asked my self 'why only 1 set'. maybe kind of stupid as i only have done what i have read many times.

i am from austria and my mother language is german. so before coming to this forum here (i think the best !!) i got my information from german languages sides.

but anyway: the excel-sheet i have downloaded from THIS side ! that was about 2 years ago, i can't find it here anymore.
i still use it in the gym to write down my weights.

and there IS only 1 set for the last 10's and 5's.

reg, Martin
 
OK I read Blade's post about the subject in the FAQs, he was talking about balancing volume, frequency, and load. I think Blade was talking about if you are really really going heavy. I can understand that. But also Blade said it depends on conditioning. I get it now. It is one way to do it, depending on many factors.

In your case Smart I would experiment with more sets. - Ich wuerde mit mehre sets probieren.

What ever happened to Blade anyway? I liked him, he was very helpful to me when I was just getting started with HST.

Bob
 
Techinically you are probabley right...I remember hst saying that 1 set is enough.

But realistically I don't see it being adequate at all.

Unless you are a true beginner and if you are then it means you need to learn movements, exercises...etc...I would do more work than that.

I am not one of the labcoat guys around here...but I have read enough of the hypertrophy studies to know that you need 25 to 50 reps at least twice a week to generate hypertrophy.

That doesn't mean that you can't grow off 15 reps...I just think most people would fit in the 25 to 50 rep range that these studies suggest.

So if you follow that rule then you are looking at

2 sets of 15 reps
3 sets of 10 reps
4 to 5 sets of 5 reps.

Given anything you do will make you grow if you are brand new to working out.

However remember a couple of things.

1) EAT...eat....and eat some more
2) Get in .7 to 1 gram of protein per LBM of weight
3) Rest adequatley
4) Make sure you are getting stronger and improving your lifts / weights over time.

Unless you are a veteran like myself...and others here...as long as you do the above you will GROW.

If you need more advice give us more detail about your diet...training expierence and goals.

Remember though......you must take in more calories than you burn to grow....regardless of what routine you are on.
 
<div>
(Bob Evans @ May 28 2009,11:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What ever happened to Blade anyway?  I liked him,  he was very helpful to me when I was just getting started with HST.

Bob</div>
Bob, Blade is very active on his own Norwegian site and forum:

http://www.myrevolution.no/

Fine if you can read and understand Norwegian. Some of the forum posts are in English though.

He also posts fairly regularly over on Lyle's Monkey Island forum (the mean one).

Do a search for his Myo-rep method.
 
1 set is not necessarily &quot;better&quot; than 3 sets.

As far as muscle hypertrophy is concerned, high duration of load is best. The cellular signals that are initiated by strain on the structural and contractile proteins of the cell are increased as time under load increases. If it weren't for the involvement of fatigue in performing the actual reps and sets, you would be better off doing tons of sets and reps.

HST uses lower numbers of sets because the muscle is trained much more often. So, the muscle isn't actually loaded for less time, its just that the loading is more evenly spread out over time to keep the signal more constant. If there are any factors that allow a person to do more sets per workout, he/she should do them.

From what other research there is on the time course of genetic expression in response to overload, it is clear that we don’t even come close the amount of time needed to elicit the greatest hypertrophic effect. But what are you going to do? We have to lift the weight a lower it over and over in order to overload the muscle. From the overload research, I personally feel longer time under tension is better. But you have to balance that with CNS fatigue, and absolute load.

More sets with heavier weight is better than fewer sets with less weight. But there is a limit to our exercise tolerance. So you have to figure out a way to get as much loading of the muscle as you can, as often as you can, and still be able to constantly increase the load over time, without burning out or getting injured.

Keep in mind that HST does not dictate that the total volume (i.e. number of sets per body part) over the course of the week should be lower than what a person is accustomed to using with traditional routines. HST only advises that the volume be evenly distributed over more workouts in the same time period. So if you are used to doing 9 sets for back on &quot;back day&quot; using a traditional routine (e.g. training each body part once per week), HST would have you do 3 sets at a time for 3 different workouts.

Obviously, a guy who is used to doing something like 12 sets for back once per week, is not going to gain much by dropping to doing only 1 set for back even if it is 3 times per week. He went from 12 sets to 3 sets per week. Not only that, but HST would have him use submax weights most of the time where he is obviously plateaued and used to doing 100% max weights (Not true 100%, but 100% with the fatigue that inevitably accumulates by the 3rd set). This is just too great a reduction in training to provide him with significant gains. The key here of course is Strategic Deconditioning, that would then allow him to begin growing again, with less &quot;average&quot; weight and volume, but higher frequency.

Well, for me, 2 sets is enough on most bopdyparts. But then again, with body parts like back, I will usually do 3 sets at different angles of pull and grip widths.

But the amount of volume each person is used to varies. I am not saying that you have to train to your volume limit. I'm just saying that if 1 set isn't enough, do another. Do too much and you'll begin to get progressively weaker, and/or injured and you will lose your desire to train.

At first, you won't know how much is too much and how much is too little. So, start with 1 work set per body part per exercise, and work up from there.

Sometimes, you will find that you need to do more during the lighter workouts, and fewer sets during the heavier workouts.
 
I didn't read all of the above post...but...

as you say HST normally takes (normal volume) and divides it over a week.

I don't think IMO that a guy can grow that much off of 3 sets a week for a muscle group.

For example during the 5's I dont care how heavy the weight is IMO (it just my opinion) if you dont do but 5 reps for say chest 3 times a week  that = 15 total reps a week.


Given I could be completely wrong but most of what I have read says you need more than that.

The DC guys have grown off of very LOW volumes...but I still think they were using around 20 to 30 reps per session...???...I may be wrong.

But as faz said above you can do more when the weight is lighter.

Good luck!
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I didn't want him to get the wrong idea of the 1 set rule....I know I did 4 years ago.
 
IMHO - if you are using an abbreviated system (simplify and win for instance) and flat bench press is your only horizontal push - then 2 &amp; 3 sets (for 10 &amp; 5 rep ranges) would be an optimal volume considering the 3x/wk frequency if loads are planned out correctly.
However if using a more complex &quot;multi-angle hitting&quot; template then dropping a set or two during the second week of the 10 and 5 rep ranges MAY be feasible.

I respectfully disagree that this would be a newbie tool and instead suggest that for an advanced lifter , using joint ripping loads , and working from a multiple exercise per body part template , who is still using or temporarily using full body programming - may find this technique a way to get through HST (in it's most commonly perceived form) with joints and CNS intact.

Personally I would try to encourage said lifter (if he was natural) to examine the benefits of at least an A/B split at that point as his ability to generate intensity will have passed by his ability to recover by such a margin that high frequency and less complex programming strategy may not be in his best interest. JUST MHO of course .
smile.gif



* by advanced I mean at the upper strata of his genetic potential not years under the bar necessarily.
 
okay, maybe there is some misunderstanding:

one set per exercise does NOT mean one set for each muscle group in my case !!!

for example:
chest:
i do bench press flat AND bench press not flat.....sorry, i don't know the english word for this
cool.gif


so that means: 4 sets chest at 15's, 4 sets chest and 10's, 2 sets chest last 2 10's sessions, 4 sets chest 5's, 2 sets chest last 2 5's sessions.

same for back. 2 exercises !

reg, Martin
 
<div>
(smartin999 @ May 29 2009,6:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">okay, maybe there is some misunderstanding:

one set per exercise does NOT mean one set for each muscle group in my case !!!

for example:
chest:
i do bench press flat AND bench press not flat.....sorry, i don't know the english word for this  
cool.gif


so that means: 4 sets chest at 15's, 4 sets chest and 10's, 2 sets chest last 2 10's sessions, 4 sets chest 5's, 2 sets chest last 2 5's sessions.

same for back. 2 exercises !

reg, Martin</div>
Big difference !!!

It looks good to me...it will be a little on the high volume for most guys here.

but if you go outside of the hst website and look at others they may say its perfect.

Again it goes all back to what you respond best too.

After years of reading hst,br.com and others..I have realized for me personally a little of the middle of the road between bodybuilding and hst is what works best for me.

I personally like and upper / lower split when I have time.

OR I like a A /B / A routine....that way I can get a little more volume / work in for my OCD bodybuider in me
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and still hit ever muscle group 2 a week.

However all of this is in a perfect world when my schedule allows which seems to be never now...LOL
tounge.gif
 
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