First Day of 5's really hard.

C

Captain Crunch

New Member
So, I just did my first workout of the 5's and wow it was heavy. What happened? This was not for all movements but for my bench press only. Maybe I was having a bad day but I felt good and was not tired or anything like that. I was really looking forward to the 5's and I could only get my first set of 5's done and the next set I could only do 4 reps and the next set 3 reps. Should I change my calculations or just do the clustering as I have seen some people do. It just seems weird that this is only my first day of 5's and when I did my 5 rm before starting HST I was lifting well over what I did this workout.
What gives?
I had no problems with the 15's and 10's in the previous 4 weeks workouts. The calculations and maxes seemed to be bang on for everything.
Thanks
 
Could be a bad day? Not enough sleep, diet, who knows. Try another day and see, if the same holds true then just duplicate the workouts until you catch up, then retest your maxes at the end of the cycle. Or you could drop a few pounds off the bar and go at it, I doubt the decrease would hurt ya since all you're doing is increasing the zig zagging a bit.
 
Whenever I start a new cycle with different reps it's difficult for me as well.

In a case like you mention my view is:

The important set = first set at target weight.

Second set = I'll drop back on the weight to make rep target

Third set = Only in the 5s and I'll drop weight to make rep target.

No third sets for me except in 5s, otherwise 2 sets. When I'm trying to burn calories, only then I do 3 sets.

The volume thing has NOT been a focus of my training with HST. I don't pay attention to it as I have on other training programs.

My first round on HST I had real difficulty equating the short workouts with progress.

I've altererd my HST a bit. I no longer have over-laps in my cycles. I just up the weights and target my reps. If I can't get my reps with the weight I should I drop the weights a bit and make my reps.

I focus on hitting the required reps at the required weight always on first set. I try to progressively use heavier weights as long as I'm meeting rep target.
 
Well, things went much better today with my incline bench and I had a great workout. I guess maybe the last workout I was just under the weather even though I thought I was feeling pretty good. Thanks for the responses.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (domineaux @ April 24 2005,6:06)]The important set = first set at target weight.
Second set = I'll drop back on the weight to make rep target
Third set = Only in the 5s and I'll drop weight to make rep target.
Click to expand...
That's actually not a great way to do it, the load is more important than the number of reps. You should keep the load the same during the workout and not worry about the reps in the second and third sets, or use clustering to get the reps if you must.
If you use a weight on your first set, then use less weight on the second and third set, you are not putting as much tension on the muscle, and probably not staying ahead of RBE. In other words, if a muscle needs to be stimulated with a certain weight to cause microtrauma, using less weight won't do anything.
 
That's what I did the other day when I found it so hard. I just stuck with the weight and still got all my reps in but had to use 5 sets instead of 3 to get my 15 reps.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dood @ April 25 2005,5:44)]
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (domineaux @ April 24 2005,6
wow.gif
6)]The important set = first set at target weight.
Second set = I'll drop back on the weight to make rep target
Third set = Only in the 5s and I'll drop weight to make rep target.
Click to expand...
That's actually not a great way to do it, the load is more important than the number of reps.  You should keep the load the same during the workout and not worry about the reps in the second and third sets, or use clustering to get the reps if you must.
If you use a weight on your first set, then use less weight on the second and third set, you are not putting as much tension on the muscle, and probably not staying ahead of RBE.  In other words, if a muscle needs to be stimulated with a certain weight to cause microtrauma, using less weight won't do anything.
Click to expand...
OK, I think I understand what you're saying.

My understanding is not to work to failure with HST.

When I'm already stressed from the weight I barely made last set...just exactly how far can I go this set without failure?

I've read all over these boards about dropsets being fine. I'm not backing off far on the weight. I'm still in the zone.

I'm thinking my muscles don't know what I'm doing, except putting them under stress. If I don't go to failure and I still keep up the pressure how can the muscle know how much weight is there?

The stress on the muscle is just as bad as the last set, because I'm not making a large decrease in the weight.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (domineaux @ April 26 2005,12:40)]I've read all over these boards about dropsets being fine.
Click to expand...
Dropsets after your workset still cause stress but not the same amount of strain as the heavier load. Drops are primarily used to elicit the metabolic response during the heavier weights because of the drop in contraction activity reduces the metabolic stress. Strain is acheived by load and the forces (stress) of the load straining (stretching, deforming) the passive and active tissue.
 
The important set = first set at target weight.
Second set = I'll drop back on the weight to make rep target
Third set = Only in the 5s and I'll drop weight to make rep target.

That's actually not a great way to do it, the load is more important than the number of reps. You should keep the load the same during the workout and not worry about the reps in the second and third sets, or use clustering to get the reps if you must.
If you use a weight on your first set, then use less weight on the second and third set, you are not putting as much tension on the muscle, and probably not staying ahead of RBE. In other words, if a muscle needs to be stimulated with a certain weight to cause microtrauma, using less weight won't do anything.


That is one of the reasons I prefer multiple exercises to multiple sets of the same exercise or clustering.
 
OK --->

I'm not arguing here. I'd like to claify this

Yesterday during my workout (5s) I was doing hammer curls and I barely made the 5 reps. Now...I ain't no dummy, when I picked that pair of db up again I knew I couldn't get off 5 reps. I backed off 2-1/2 lbs per arm and hit the 5s and it was still difficult.

SO... If I'd gone with the original amount of weight I might have gotten off 3 and maybe 4 reps, if I was lucky. That I see as failure and my understanding is HST is not about going to failure.

But it would be OK if I neg'd the same weight amount. Now if I neg'd the weight...effectively I've lowered the weight. So, what is the difference, whether I use a little less weight or do negs?

Only difference I perceive is I'm stressing at the original amount, and without pausing (negs) I'm just taking off a little weight to complete the rep.

This may seem like a fine point, but I think it's probably more important than I realized.

Don't get me wrong ---> I can live with doing less reps with the same weight. Actually, things would move along a little faster. Sometimes I have to wait until another person finishes to get the dropset weight I need.

I appreciate the responses...I'm not into disputing anyone. I want to get it right.
 
I think the problem you are having is you are equating percieved effort with actual tension on the muscle. So on your second set you could do 3 or 4 reps with the same weight, or 5 reps with less weight and it might feel as if you are doing the same amount of work, but the muscle is seeing less actual tension because you are using less weight.
You need to use enough weight to stretch the muscle and cause microtrauma. Each time you use a weight, your muscle adapts and becomes resitant to microtrauma at that weight, (RBE) which is why we keep increasing poundages. Reps are just a method of getting time under tension, (TUT). So what you sould be doing is using the same weight and waiting a little longer between sets, and/or using clustering to get those reps, or accepting the fact that you wont get the same reps in your second and third sets because it's not a big deal. Instead of 5, 5, 5, you could do 5, 4, 3, 3, same total reps, or 5,4,3 and not worry about it because the extra 3 reps you missed aren't that big of a deal.
I'm not sure what you mean by doing negatives with less weight being the same, as what you are doing, you should be doing negatives with more than your 5RM, and you can keep using that same weight because as the weight gets heavier RBE takes longer to catch up. Same reason you can keep using your 5RM for two weeks instead of doing negatives, but you never use LESS weight. Hope that helps some.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Old and Grey @ April 26 2005,11:07)]That is one of the reasons I prefer multiple exercises to multiple sets of the same exercise or clustering.
Click to expand...
O.G., could you elaborate on that a little? I don't see how putting a muscle under the same tension with two separate exercises is functionally any different than using two sets of the same exercise. What am i missing?
 
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