First HST: Exercise substitutes?

W

wobbles

New Member
I'm about to start my first HST program and i just wanted to clarify a few things. This is the program that I originally decided on with the standard 15/10/5/5.

<table style="width: 224px; height: 296px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:6546;width:134pt" width="179"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl65" style="height:16.5pt;width:134pt" height="22" width="179">BB Squats x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Stiff Leg Deadlifts x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Dips x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Chinups (W, N) x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Bent Over Rows (W, N) x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Shrugs x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">DB Seated Shoulder Press x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Cable Lateral Raise x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Lying Cable Rear Delt x 1
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Standing BB Curl x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated Tricep DB Extension x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise x 2
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl66" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Reverse Situps x 2
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
However, I can't do bent over rows due to a herniated disc and the static position this exercise requires. As a result i was thinking of substituting this exercise for seated cable rows. I also can only do nine underhand chin ups.

So i don't really feel that i could incorporate these body weight exercises into my workout, given that i would probably need to perform at least 20 to be able to do 15,10 or 5 with sub maximal weight and increments. So would it be acceptable to swap the set of wide and narrow grip chin ups for wide and close grip pull downs instead? I was also thinking of switching Dips for close grip bench for this same reasoning. Therefore, my workout would look like this:

<table style="width: 228px; height: 317px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr height="22"></tr><tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"><td class="xl65" style="height:16.5pt;width:134pt" height="22" width="179">BB Squats x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Stiff Leg Deadlifts x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Close grip bench x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Pulldowns (W, N) x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated Cable Rows (W, N) x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Shrugs x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">DB Seated Shoulder Press x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Cable Lateral Raise x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Lying Cable Rear Delt x 1
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Standing BB Curl x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated Tricep DB Extension x2
</td></tr><tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise x 2
</td></tr><tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"><td class="xl66" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Reverse Situps x 2
</td></tr></tbody></table>What suggestions would you recommend?
 
However, I can't do bent over rows due to a herniated disc and the static position this exercise requires.
Click to expand...
Yes you can do Cable Rows. However, you may be able to do Supported Dumbbell Rows since it will take a lot of the strain off your back (probably more than Cable Rows) and IMO is a more effective exercise because of a greater range of motion.

Please check with your doctor before doing this. I have a ruptured L5 disk which used to hurt constantly and give me sciatica sometime so painful it woke me up at night. Then I started Deadlifting (very cautiously because I was sure I would make it worse). A couple of months later, as my Deadlift weight progressed, all my back pain disappeared. The ruptured disk is still there but the increased stability of my stronger core muscles holds it in place better eliminating all the pain I used to suffer from. So if you can consider Deadlifting, it has quite literally changed my life. (note that if you want to minimize the shearing force on your lower back if you start Deadlifting you could start out with a Sumo Stance. Then as your back gets stronger you can mix in Conventional Stance to see which one you are best at.

For Chin ups since you have access to a Lat-Pull machine you can just start you cycle using the machine and when the weight you are pulling is close to or equal to your body weight switch over to body weight Chin Ups. Hell if you can do 9 with body weight you will actually be adding weight to your body by the time you finish the 5s. It would be even better to use an assisted Chin Up station if your gym has one.

The same goes for using an assisted Dip station if your gym has one. You can also as you suggest do Close Grip Bench Press for Triceps, although I personally prefer Dips. You could also try doing Bench Dips for your Triceps. Many people don’t like them because they put a lot of strain on your shoulders, but I found them very effective for improving my regular Dips to the point that I can start a cycle with them. Another option is to add in or substitute in Dips for the Close Grip Bench later in your cycle when you reach a point you can do the proper number of reps. Ultimately the best way to get better at doing Dips is to do them.
 
Yeah I've been doing dead lifts in my current program that's just ended. Decided to switch up since the routine consisted of the usual 4 day split, 3 sets per exercise and taking last set to failure gig. I can do assisted wide and narrow grip chins. My gym has pretty much everything, so not really any restrictions there. So would I be better off doing assisted dips over close grip bench?

The thing that really confuses me is that i seem to feel more DOMS in my back from pulldowns then I do from chin ups. Same goes for cable rows as opposed to barbell or one-arm dumbbell rows. Is this normal? I know pulldowns are more isolated but wouldn't isolation technically be better for micro trauma in the muscle?

I'm not trying to avoid chin ups, I'm happy to do whatever is necessary to get the best hypertrophy results. But i just cant get my head around it.

Edit:

I noticed in your training log you stated SLDL arent possible. Seeing as my L5 is also ruptured i guess the same could be said for myself. So should i swap that for sumo deadlifts? I figured SLDL were for both lowerback and hamstrings, so does that mean i need to factor something else in for my hamstrings or will sumo deadlifts cover that aspect enough for decent growth?
 
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I noticed in your training log you stated SLDL arent possible. Seeing as my L5 is also ruptured i guess the same could be said for myself. So should i swap that for sumo deadlifts? I figured SLDL were for both lowerback and hamstrings, so does that mean i need to factor something else in for my hamstrings or will sumo deadlifts cover that aspect enough for decent growth?
Click to expand...

Actually in my last cycle I started doing SLDL now that I’m more confident in my lower back and they gave me no problems. This cycle I’m doing Romanian Deadlifts instead to help take some of the lower back out of it since I’m Deadlifting twice a week (some of them from a platform) and also Squatting twice a week so I figured the Romanians would be a little easier on my lower back. I would say that if you aren’t having any problems Deadlifting then go ahead and start incorporating some SLDLs, Romanian DLs or Good Mornings. Start light and work your way up.

IMO Dips done for Triceps is a better overall exercise then NGBP so if you want to get better at Dips then I would use the assisted machine and work your way up. Dips can also be done as a great chest exercise which IMO is better for building mass than the Bench Press. Also, once they get use to them a lot of people can do Chest Dips with more weight than they can Bench Press. However, if you are looking more to improve you Bench Press the NGBP might help more since it more closely mimics a regular Bench Press.

Different people respond differently to the same exercises, so if Pull ups (wide grip) work better for you than (Chin Ups) do them, and the same goes for Cable Rows. Many people do both wide grip Pull Ups and close grip Chin Ups if you don’t want to use both in the same session you can alternate between them if you don’t mind the extra complication of tracking the increments. I’ve even done a cycle where I did them 3 ways on the same day by doing 1/3 of the reps with wide grip, the 1/3 with close grip and finally 1/3 with parallel grip, though for me close grip works best because I can use the most weight and I get greater range of motion and more Biceps involvement.

Also, don’t use D.O.M.S. as a measure for an exercise’s effectiveness in generating hypertrophy.
 
alright cheers for the input. I'll be testing my max's this week. Do i test each rep ranges specifically, or do i just test my 10rm's then calculate my 15 and 5's off of that? Seems full on to be maxing out on squats,deads and bench three times in a week.

Testing 15 rm's on Monday
Testing 10rm's on Wednesday
Testing 5rm's on Friday
SD for 1 week
Program begins
 
I think you can just test your 10 RM and calculate the others, when I was doing “vanilla” HST I did it that way because I was to impatient and lazy to do each range. I don’t even find RMs anymore. Now I just use the last heaviest lifts of my previous cycle and add 5-10% to find my RM for the next cycle. If I add a new exercise I just estimate and usually start a little low. Then if it feels to light I will just increment a little faster.
 
Ok no worries, i might just test them all out to be safe.
Is it a good idea to stagger sets between bodyparts?

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="189"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:6912;width:142pt" width="189"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl64" style="height:16.5pt;width:142pt" height="22" width="189">BB Squats </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Sumo Deadlifts</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Sumo Deadlifts</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Dips</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Widegrip Pullups</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Chinups</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Tricep pushdown</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated widegrip cable rows</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated closegrip cable rows</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Standing Overhead Press</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Cable Lateral Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl63" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">BB Shrugs</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl63" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Seated DB preacher curls</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Tricep pushdown</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated DB preacher curls</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Reverse Situps</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl66" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Reverse Situps</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Or should i just stick with the standard (note: these samples are exactly the same in terms of exercises and sets, just rearranged differently).

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="192"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:7021;width:144pt" width="192"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl67" style="height:16.5pt;width:144pt" height="22" width="192">BB Squats </td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Incline Benchpress</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Sumo Deadlifts</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Sumo Deadlifts</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Dips</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Widegrip Pullups</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Chinups</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated widegrip cable rows</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Seated closegrip cable rows</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">BB Shrugs</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Standing Overhead Press</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Cable Lateral Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl65" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Lying Cable Rear Delt</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl65" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Seated DB preacher curls</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Tricep pushdown</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.75pt" height="21">Calf Raise</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.75pt" height="21"> <td class="xl68" style="height:15.75pt;border-top:none" height="21">Reverse Situps</td> </tr> <tr style="height:16.5pt" height="22"> <td class="xl66" style="height:16.5pt" height="22">Reverse Situps</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
 
I like to superset different exercises when I can to save time but usually no more than 2 or 3 exercises at one time. The one exception to that was doing the UD2 Carb-Depletion Workout where I rotated through all the exercises in one big superset. Even if I don’t superset I try to alternate working different body parts to allow more recovery between similar exercises. How you do it is really up to you and what you like.
 
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