Glycogen replenishment

M

mcraec

New Member
Ok probably an easy question to answer , I've searched but I'm tired and probably over looked it so anyway.... Can someone send me a link to why glycogen replenishment is important.... is there anything besides providing energy.... quoting from bryan's article

It is probably worth adding here that most bodybuilders need not worry about glycogen replenishment. "Adequate" carbohydrate intake from a variety of healthy sources will ensure there is always sufficient glycogen to support an average workout.

So if I'm still gaining each week and I have the energy to complete my workouts should I still be concerned with pre and post carbs...... I understand glycogen replenishment is accelerated post workout but if I'm working out 3 times a week with atleast one day between each training day , would glycogen be replenished before the next day I train regardless?

Does it affect hypertrophy in anyway as well ?

I'm certain I've overlooked something so any replies thanks in advance
 
Im pretty sure that a pre workout mixture of carbs and protein is more hypertrophic than protein alone. From what I'v read, you should have more carbs than protein in both your pre and post workout meal. A ratio of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 is sometimes recommended. In my opinion, carbs should make up a large part of your diet. There is so much B****** written about carbs it is unbelievable. Carbs after 8pm make you fat etc . I eat plenty of carbs and I am strong and lean. Its mainly about calories. Anyhoo.....

''would glycogen be replenished before the next day I train regardless?''

If you eat enough carbs, yes.

So if I'm still gaining each week and I have the energy to complete my workouts should I still be concerned with pre and post carbs

It might make a difference so yeh, Id include carbs in my pre and post workout meals.
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Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Nov;38(11):1918-25. Links
Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy.

Cribb PJ,
Hayes A.
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport; and the School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
PURPOSE: Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program. METHODS: In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content. RESULTS: PRE-POST demonstrated a greater (P < 0.05) increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater (P < 0.05) increase in CSA of the type II fibers and contractile protein content. PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle Cr and glycogen values after the training program (P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from RE-training
 
ok thanks for both .... i suppose ill get back to carbs pre and post.... just feels a little strange trusting ABCbobdybuilding, but it is also advocated by bryan, dan, vicious etc. ... looking forward to my shakes tasting like willy wonkas A$$.... thanks again
 
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(codz3 @ Dec. 08 2006,18:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
To answer your question, no you don't need carbs postwork to replenish glycogen. In trials that used placebo (PL) (water) vs. CHO, naturally the CHO replenished glycogen faster but at the end of day, glycogen was still replenished to near basal by around 12 hours even with placebo. In other trials that used CHO/PRO/FAT vs CHO or PL, the mixed meal and CHO replenished gycogen about the same with only a slight non-significant difference between CHO and mixed. At 4 hours post exercise, serum glucose was actually still higher with mixed vs CHO or placebo but still dramatically lower than 1 hour post resistance training.

But there are more important items than glycogen replenishment when it comes to post workout nutrition.
 
The study may very well be correct, but I would like to see the full article. Does anybody have easy access to it? I would be interested in just how much difference was demonstrated. Even if a &quot;statistically significant&quot; difference was demonstrated, it could still be so small that you wouldn't really notice without very careful measurement
 
Dan on ur MST site i've seen you advise people to take a look at your nutrition article/s.... I've looked around on the site but couldn't locate them... If could direct me to them it would be much appreciated... thanks for the reply as well, i understand your a busy man
 
Dan, I know what you're saying there, and I've often just ATE after a workout, old school style, and noticed no difference; so I believe you. But as for the window of opportunity, I'd seen studies elsewhere showing the same conditions. The thing about the window isn't really glycogen though, it's about protein uptake, from my understanding. Isn't that what you're saying is more important?
 
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(Ruthenian @ Dec. 08 2006,19:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The study may very well be correct, but I would like to see the full article.  Does anybody have easy access to it?  I would be interested in just how much difference was demonstrated.  Even if a &quot;statistically significant&quot; difference was demonstrated, it could still be so small that you wouldn't really notice without very careful measurement</div>
The study I referred too?
 
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(codz3 @ Dec. 08 2006,23:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan on ur MST site i've seen you advise people to take a look at your nutrition article/s.... I've looked around on the site but couldn't locate them... If could direct me to them it would be much appreciated... thanks for the reply as well, i understand your a busy man</div>
Not nutrition, I have advised people to read my article on sarcoplasmic vs myofibril hypertrophy as many people still believe that the rep range dictates which so called type of hypertrophy occurs, IE the old functional vs. non-functional hypertrophy crap that's still being passed around.

Any article I have written is on my Hypertrophy-Research.com site in the &quot;articles&quot; sections, except the ones I wrote for Thinikmuscle newsletter.

I have an article, yet unpublished, that looks at energy needs for protein synthesis, it should come out in the next Thinkmuscle newsletter.
 
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(quadancer @ Dec. 09 2006,05:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan, I know what you're saying there, and I've often just ATE after a workout, old school style, and noticed no difference; so I believe you. But as for the window of opportunity, I'd seen studies elsewhere showing the same conditions. The thing about the window isn't really glycogen though, it's about protein uptake, from my understanding. Isn't that  what you're saying is more important?</div>
Quad, I'm not disagreeing with a &quot;window of op&quot;, I'm disagreeing with what the Wilson bros. say it is.

Yes, exactly, the true significance of pre/post workout nutriton is how anabolic is it? or how catabolic? Many things change this, carbs vs no carbs, whole protein vs free form, EAA vs BCAA, casein vs. whey, pre vs post, time either pre or post, energy use and comsumption. So my point is the Wilson bros point to this very small window but in reality not all possible variables have been fully examined so at this point we don't know how large or small this window really is.

Yes, I am saying that gycogen replenishment is only one small aspect and IMOO is not something to really worry about especially if 24 hours or more are seperating your workouts and you are consuming sufficient carbs. It may be a larger issue if you are doing 2-a-days.
 
I've searched for this article I read on the HST boards a while ago..... It revealed a study displaying more amino acid uptake when carbs were not added to the PWO shake....... It later turned out it was an old article of Bryans..... Don't quote me on what the study was about but I'm sure it had something to do with improved amino acid uptake in abscence of carbs...... Anyways i can't find this article now but if someone knows its location or the title of the post please inform
 
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(style @ Dec. 09 2006,12:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Theres a post in Max-Stim where Dan pretty much destroys the abc article.

Here it is

http://hypertrophy-research.com/phpBB1/viewtopic.php?t=145</div>
Before I came here, ABC was my BB site of choice, seemingly lending to scientific studies (flawed or not) as their base of information rather than anecdotal evidence used by some others. After reading this thread, I get a new level of respect for the researcher's researcher, Dan.

My results with Glutamine have not been strength, but quicker recovery from DOMS, which obviously isn't much of a problem with HST.
 
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