Growing while leaning out

G

gh10

New Member
Hi, i'm new to this forum.

I chanced across this ‘If you are trying to grow while leaning out, you will want no carbs in your pre-workout drink, and delayed carbs about 30 minutes after your post workout protein drink.’ in the HST ebook FAQ (under section 22.6 Pre and post workout nutrition).

I consider myself pretty lanky with some belly fat. Although I know to change that I can embark on the traditional bulk and cut routines, I’m pretty disturbed about the belly fat and afraid of putting on even more. Hence, I do not intend to go down that path. I’ll like to know if there’s any truth for a natural lifter to grow while losing fat (not expecting drastic changes).

I’m currently on my 4[SUP]th[/SUP] week in my first cycle of HST. I have never attempted any bodybuilding/hypertrophy programs. Prior to this I’ve fiddled with Stronglifts (variant/spin-off of Starting Strength) for about a year before going all out on Starting Strength for about 1.5 years. I started off skinny but noticed reasonably good gains till growth stagnated. At the time of dropping Starting Strength, my stats were

Age: 30
Height: 1.79m
Bodyweight: 85kg
Bodyfat: unmeasured (~based on pictorial guides should probably about 15 to 20%?)

Squat: 135kg
Deadlift (Romanian): 150kg
Barbell Rows: 90kg
Bench Press: 95kg
Overhead Press: 55kg

*All stats are unsupported, strict-form 5 rep maxes.

After reading all about HST, i've decided to give it a shot. However, i'm very lost on whether to eat for growth or weight loss.

Would appreciate any advise/comment(s). Thank you.
 
Hey, I'm new to this forum as well. But from what I read, to get better results, you're better off focusing on one thing at a time. If you feel too fat then just cut for a few months, and then you can bulk without much hesitation.

By the way, you said you're at the 4th week of HST. Have you noticed any noticeable muscle or strength gains so far?
 
Some say you can, some say you can't. Google "lean gains" if you do not want to try a traditional bulk/cut approach.
 
You can try to do both, just be aware that unless you are massively gifted in the genetics department, you will probably get extremely poor results in comparison to someone doing a regular cut and bulk.

Why so terrified of the fat gain? Do you walk around with your shirt off constantly? Nobody is looking at a skinny dude's belly when he's walking around with his shirt on. Nobody cares. You might think they do, but they don't. It's like the girl with one tiny little imperfection who thinks that everyone is staring at it when nobody even notices.

You do realize that fat is not permanent, right? It's pretty easy to strip it away. I was a "lanky" guy when I first started HST too. I was scared to get fat. Then I got over it, manned up and started cutting and bulking. Now I'm not a lanky guy anymore.
 
Yeah, Totentanz is right. You need food to grow muscle. Its very difficult, and sub-optimal to try and grow muscle without a significant caloric intake. As a natural, the fastest way to grow muscles is to gain some fat alongside it. Can "leangains" be done? Yes, I recently grew muscle and lost some bodyfat in a short period, but it was the first time ever, and I don't expect it on a regular basis. Leangains is a lot more difficult, and the gains arent gong to be as ideal, as when you are allowing some fat gain and overall weight gain while training for hypetrophy.
 
Adding on to that, I highly prefer a leangains approach for cutting down while maintaining bodyfat rather than intentionally trying to recomp with it. You would even be better off using it to try to bulk rather than intending to do a recomp. I've successfully done a recomp before as well, but like Sci said, it is very difficult and for me, it was mostly a surprise. It is far easier and quicker to bulk/cut as long as you don't bulk as in "eat whatever the hell I want" and cut by "starve myself while doing loads of cardio." You have to count calories while bulking AND cutting, manage your weight gain week by week and don't be lazy about the numbers side of it. Diet is the biggest part of all of this, lifting is secondary.
 
Old and Grey said:
Today is National Bulk Day in the old US of A! :p
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Indeed, happy fill your face with Turkey day to all you guys over the pond.

As for growing muscle whilst losing fat, I believe it can be done but it's just not optimal and will probably take 2-3 times as long to get into "shape" as a regular bulk/cut.

I know how you feel though, I've gone from 9 stone 6 pound to 11 stone 10 pound although your body I bet still looks in proportion, it's just you bring overly critical.
 
Great advice by everyone...a lot of people suggest bulking to 15% bodyfat and cutting to 10% to 12% bodyfat.

This makes sense to me on paper but to be honest I have always for the most part been what people consider lean (by average society) meaning 33 inch waist with above average muscularity and I am always around 15% bodyfat.

If I try to go below 12% I can do it but I have to work like hell to do it especially now that I am in my mid 30's...so a better question I would follow up with you guys are do you think the 10 to 15% rule of bulking and cutting is accurate?
 
Its up to everyone how lean they want to get when cutting and bulking. You can go between 12 and 17 if you like, its up to you. I dont feel properly lean until Im at 10% or below though. Im almost 37 and I have been going between 9/10 and 16/17 for the past year or so, but like you, the last 2% are quite difficuilt to remove.
 
For all you new natural skinny guys, start in late summer and bulk up to as much as 20% bf and then start cut in early April to the 8-10% range. Getting too lean for a length of time is as unhealthy as being to fat. This can easily be done on a true 500 kcal excess of the right foods in 6 months and a 500 kcal deficit from maintenance over 3 months leaving you with around 8 or so pounds of lean muscle gains by the start of summer. Repeat every year for 5 years and then reevaluate what you really want from your body. However, watching your arms shrink during a cut is most unpleasant so prepare yourself. You will be smaller but actually look bigger.

The reason the math does not work out exactly is because your metabolism will change during your bulk period.
 
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Old and Grey said:
For all you new natural skinny guys, start in late summer and bulk up to as much as 20% bf and then start cut in early April to the 8-10% range. Getting too lean for a length of time is as unhealthy as being to fat. This can easily be done on a true 500 kcal excess of the right foods in 6 months and a 500 kcal deficit from maintenance over 3 months leaving you with around 8 or so pounds of lean muscle gains by the start of summer. Repeat every year for 5 years and then reevaluate what you really want from your body. However, watching your arms shrink during a cut is most unpleasant so prepare yourself. You will be smaller but actually look bigger.

The reason the math does not work out exactly is because your metabolism will change during your bulk period.
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In most cases do the arms lose inches, but look actually bigger? Or do they also look smaller as well but more ripped?
 
cookieman9000 said:
In most cases do the arms lose inches, but look actually bigger? Or do they also look smaller as well but more ripped?
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It is strictly my opinion but I believe everyone looks more muscular and, thus, "larger" when they have a lower bf%. Naturally, pure measurements, including your arms and waist, will actually be less. Who looks "bigger" at the beach, a 200 pound 5'10" 30% fat guy or a muscular and somewhat lean 12% bf guy? Look at Totz's pics in his e book. He looks more muscular ("bigger") as he leans out.
 
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Old and Grey said:
It is strictly my opinion but I believe everyone looks more muscular and, thus, "larger" when they have a lower bf%. Naturally, pure measurements, including your arms and waist, will actually be less. Who looks "bigger" at the beach, a 200 pound 5'10" 30% fat guy or a muscular and somewhat lean 12% bf guy?
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It's just that you said that the arms will shrink, implying they will look smaller, and then on the other hand you said you'll look bigger. So it got me kind of confused.
 
What he means is this: at 220 pounds, I looked and was quite big. Now that I have lost a bunch of bodyfat, I am only about 200 pounds. So I am a little smaller, but I look MORE muscular, because of lower bodyfat, my muscles are more visible with my shirt off. So, my arms have shrunk a little bit in size, but they actually look better, because they just have less fat... Get it?
 
At around 20% bf and being a beginner lifter I am able to get meh-moderate gains while cutting (we have semi-similar stats). That being said the easiest way to make your belly look smaller is increase your shoulders, chest and back (which is easiest while bulking). 8)
 
Just label your foods Chest, Shoulders, Back, Arms or Legs (but no belly) before you eat it so it will know where to go! Label with paper and not plastic as that burns coming out the other end. That way you can selectively grow certain body parts. :cool:
 
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