Gymnastics/bodyweight training with HST

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forumlurker

New Member
Hi,

I've have been looking into a routine for this summer and came around HST. I agree with most of the principles and concepts but I was wondering if any of you have tried incorporating some gymnastics/body weight skills?
I just have so many ideas flowing through me I am not sure what to do, but HST raised some intriguing points so I thought it wouldn't hurt to try it out.

I was thinking of HST in simple terms and thought it would go well with incorporating some gymnastics stuff at the same time it may overload the joints. :mad: I believe gymnastics movements and weightlifting together is a strong mix.

So far I have been trying to compile a basic HST routine together:
Flat BB bench
BB rows
Dips
Military Press *read legs below this gets caught in the mix with clean and press
Chinups
*Legs(read below)
Core:
Hanging L(leg)-raises(180 degrees to 90 degree)
V-ups

Gymnastics/bodyweight movements:
Static Tuck Planche
Static Handstand



*I am confused on what to do with legs(cleans & press, or clean then press separately, deadlift, squat) Note I do more of a clean squat, for those of you that are unaware of a clean squat, basically you clean the bar up catch up high then basically squat the weight up. Suggestions would be great, as I love all of these exercises.

Attacking the HST principles with the gymnastics movements
For those of you that are unfamiliar with gymnastics stuff, many of the skills such as the better known Iron Cross, planche and handstand are practiced with static holds as they provide the most benefit with joint preparation and overall strength with the skill. I am just unsure how to incorporate this into HST as these skills aren't geared towards hypertrophy and in some ways hypertrophy may have a negative feedback on these skills.

Thanks
 
forumlurker,

Firstly, welcome to HST!

Squats and deads are ideal to use in an HST cycle because it is easy to calculate RMs and load increments.

Cleans and snatches are more difficult to program because higher skill movements are more adversely affected by fatigue. Sure you can do cleans for 15 reps, à la Crossfit, but your form is going to start to suck if you attempt a 15RM. Poor form can get you injured. My approach has been to do sets of 3 to 5 with lighter loads and shorter rest periods at the start of the cycle and to increase the load and rest between sets as the cycle continues, finishing up with multiple heavy singles.

The gymnastic stuff often relies on high-strength isometrics. These would be best saved for the 5s and post-5s. Save the most intense exercises for the post-5s. They may well add a useful extra strain factor to the rest of your lifting program. (I do handstands throughout my whole cycle as part of my trap/delt work - they don't seem to interfere with my lifting but I tend to do them last along with any extra core work eg. toes-to-bar).

Hypertrophy will make you heavier but it will also give you the potential to develop more strength. Of course, if you want to be good at gymnastic movements then it is unlikely that developing really big legs will be a good idea.
 
Thanks for the post!

I agree with the diminishing form when it comes to cleans at high repetitions. They're just a fun workout and figured it wouldn't hurt asking how they would play into HST.

So how would I plan squats and dead lifts into my routine? I've been reading that working squats, deads and rows all in one day will put some heavy strain on the back, which seems valid.

I figured some of my 15 repetition maxes today:
Squat(barbell) 135lbs
Shoulder press(barbell) 95lbs
Pull ups 15+
BB flat bench 135 +/- 5 pounds for the sake of technique I will be operating with 130lb for the 15s
Deadlift(barbell) 135 this is from the top of my head at the moment


Question on repetitions...Now I understand there is no perfect repetition amount, but speaking generally one of the principles of HST is eccentric contraction stimulus if I'm not mistaken. Onto the question now that I know my 15 repetition max what percentage should I work with the two working sets ie x% first set, y% second working set? Follow up question how will I "know" when I have met my eccentric contraction stimulus amount(lactic acid burn when it comes to the 15s?)...and does it matter if I go in excess or less than 15 as long as I feel the burn in the 15s?

I will probably work my body weight exercises separately(am/pm) from my weight lifting so I get efficent submaximal effort for both weight lifting and bodyweight isometric exercises.

I'm trying to do more thinking with this routine than I have done with my prior routines, so please excuse all my questions.

Thanks
 
You can alternate squats and deads along with some of your other exercises, like so:

A)
Squat
Flat BB bench
BB rows
Military Press
V-ups

B)
Clean & Jerk
Dips
Chinups
Deadlift*
Hanging L(leg)-raises(180 degrees to 90 degree)

Depending on how your lower back is doing after cleans you could follow them with deads or leave them till later (as shown) to allow your lower back some time for recovery.

With only a handful of exercises for each workout, a good place to start for volume would be 15s: 2 x 15; 10s: 3 x 10; 5s: 3-5 x 5 (plus a high-rep metabolic set during 5s). Watch out for deads though; you might have to scale down the volume once they get heavy as they can be very demanding of your CNS and lower back, ie. 3 x 5 might be plenty once you are in your second week of 5s.

For your 15s mesocycle, I'll use squats as an example:

135 x 75% ~= 100lb (70-75% of xRM is a good place to start each x mesocycle)

So your lifts working up to your 15RM would be something like:

100, 105, 110, 120, 125, 135

or

100, 110, 110, 120, 120, 135

It really doesn't matter. Using convenient loads, just get from 100lb to your 135lb 15RM over the six workouts (if you are doing a different number of workouts divide things up accordingly).

If you are doing two sets during 15s then do both work sets using the same loading. Second set will be harder by an amount that will depend on how much fatigue you induced in the first set and how much rest time you allow between sets.

First set you should aim to hit your target reps; for the second set do what you can while avoiding failure. So if you have to stop a few reps short that's ok.

Clustering reps to get your rep total is quite a good idea once you are past the 15s and the loads are heavier. Eg. if, during 5s, you planned to do 4 x 5 you might find you have to do this 5, 5, 4, 3, 3 to get your 20 reps.

Also, during 15s when the loads are relatively light, you could either do more reps or slow the reps down in order to get a good burn.

Hope that gives you a few ideas and answers some of your questions (most of this is discussed in the HST FAQs so do check through them).
 
I will defiantly look over the FAQs again, lots of information to look over to put a routine together.

For my first cycle I will probably leave off cleans as I do not want to complicate things my first run.

I was reading...and we are trying to "fatigue" the eccentric part of the lift and "chug" through the concentric part, which is a great concept as this has always seemed to work well for me, this will also give a nice burn like you said. I think I will need to rework my maximum loads as I didn't move slowly on the eccentric part of my lifts so my weight is a little high.

I am just a little confused on how to work up to my working sets and I still am.

Ok, so I did a bit more reading in the FAQ and need some clarification. I checked out the "HST Calculator" throw in my RM and increments. So basically it lays out 6 sets each set will be performed at 15 reps, and the last 2 will be my working sets? Doesn't this go against HST principles? I understand there should be warm up sets, but if you are doing 6 sets with 2 working sets included wouldn't the sets prior to the work sets exhaust to much?

For instance I entered some values into the HST calculator. RM = 135, increment = 5. It gave me 6 sets; first set was 110 and incremented 5pds every set to 135...of course.

See were my confusion is?
 
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In regards to my post above...I think I may have had an epiphany that rose above my previous ignorance.

So I have been reading a re-reading and overlooked a lot of information, I came in excited and ready to post questions.

It was funny how I overlooked the HST calculator, I now understand 1,2,...,5,6 are each exercise day, and the increment will be applied each exercise day there by following the principle of progressive load...duh! I will then reach my maximum load at the end of the 2 week cycle.

I just need to check up on my maxes again, focusing on the eccentric part to see what I can withstand, give myself a week off then try this out!
 
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