Joe.Muscle
Active Member
I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried something like this and what were there thoughts and opinions?
http://bodybuilding.about.com/od....eps.htm
http://bodybuilding.about.com/od....eps.htm
Has anyone ever tried this routine
- Thread starter Joe.Muscle
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Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Anyone from this forum?
scientific muscle
New Member
I have never tried it, but hugo rivera seems like a dumbass.
I am not saying 10x10 won't work, just that this article was written by a tard.
I am not saying 10x10 won't work, just that this article was written by a tard.
I'm on the fence with this one: Hugo is one who I've admired for his dedication to natural BB'ing (and DON'T start that he's probably a liar crap with me) and his diet advice is great. Now here he's talking about 100 rep routines, but not forever. He then mentions dropping to 6 sets of 6 with more weight; on track there, and we all know you can keep dropping sets and reps and adding weight even further. The issue here is: is a 100-rep scheme going to work or do damage?
This from the M-time study on Max-stim:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When lifting lighter loads that do not require full-force, the MNs (motor neurons) fire on a rotating basis. (X) amount of MUs are needed to produce (Y) amount of force. Since (X) is less than the sum total of all MUs, then some MUs are resting while others are firing. They alternate 'shifts' so that each MU has a chance to rest while others are firing. In this case since only partial recruitment is occuring, it takes longer for the muscle to fatigue and thus fatigue must be first induced in the muscle before full recruitment can occur.
So when lifting your 15 rm and going to failure, full-recruitment doesn't occur until the last few reps. The last few reps seem harder because some of the MUs have already fatigued (depleted energy reserves), so full recruitment is necessary to keep lifting. When failure occurs, enough MUs are fatigued to the point that force production is too small too overcome the resistance.
HIT training gets some full-recruitment, which is good, but at the expense of heavy fatigue, which is bad for muscle contraction and recovery.
Max-Stimulation training gets full-recruitment (or very close) on each and every rep for multiple reps.</div>
So I see that this system gets you to fatigue, and therefore employs all the motor units at the END of the sets, or the final sets, which you could have done way earlier with a heavier weight. - of course, that may not be so if you just finished a strength routine.
This from the M-time study on Max-stim:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When lifting lighter loads that do not require full-force, the MNs (motor neurons) fire on a rotating basis. (X) amount of MUs are needed to produce (Y) amount of force. Since (X) is less than the sum total of all MUs, then some MUs are resting while others are firing. They alternate 'shifts' so that each MU has a chance to rest while others are firing. In this case since only partial recruitment is occuring, it takes longer for the muscle to fatigue and thus fatigue must be first induced in the muscle before full recruitment can occur.
So when lifting your 15 rm and going to failure, full-recruitment doesn't occur until the last few reps. The last few reps seem harder because some of the MUs have already fatigued (depleted energy reserves), so full recruitment is necessary to keep lifting. When failure occurs, enough MUs are fatigued to the point that force production is too small too overcome the resistance.
HIT training gets some full-recruitment, which is good, but at the expense of heavy fatigue, which is bad for muscle contraction and recovery.
Max-Stimulation training gets full-recruitment (or very close) on each and every rep for multiple reps.</div>
So I see that this system gets you to fatigue, and therefore employs all the motor units at the END of the sets, or the final sets, which you could have done way earlier with a heavier weight. - of course, that may not be so if you just finished a strength routine.
scientific muscle
New Member
Actually that is not from any particular study, just a composition I wrote on the max-stim forum to explain the idea to an interested newcomer.
Thanks for quoting me though!
Thanks for quoting me though!
scientific muscle
New Member
I respect him as a bodybuilder. Obviously he puts alot of hard work into his training and diet.
It is just that he is not very educted about the reality of muscle hypertophy.
He seems to be a big believer in fatigue being the stimulus for growth, and in 'the confusion principle'. I have read some of his articles and he is not any different from most of the dim 'roiders who write for muscle mags.
Here is a quote of his about how changing your routine is very important or you will stagnate (wrong):
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div>
And totentanz quoted above his faith in fatigue being the key to building mass (wrong).
It is just that he is not very educted about the reality of muscle hypertophy.
He seems to be a big believer in fatigue being the stimulus for growth, and in 'the confusion principle'. I have read some of his articles and he is not any different from most of the dim 'roiders who write for muscle mags.
Here is a quote of his about how changing your routine is very important or you will stagnate (wrong):
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div>
And totentanz quoted above his faith in fatigue being the key to building mass (wrong).
Perhaps it's another case of someone quoting things that work for himself specifically; expecting the masses to respond equally? I don't know; haven't read a lot of his routines, but he sure looks good.
I agree with this quote: <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div> ...as long as you've done your whatever until it stagnated and no longer is giving results. And your 'change' is something that follows the rules of hypertrophy or strength, depending on your goals. If he's talking about the "JOE WEIDER CONFUSION PRINCIPLE", he's off his nut, IMO.
OTOH, if you're doing something like barbell curls, then DB curls, then machine curls...I don't think the bicep really knows the difference, and it's certainly not 'confused'. It's doing the same thing regardless, but your synergistic musculature is being hit in different ways. Not consistently enough to benefit, I'll bet.
Sci: Holy Cow man! It made so much sense that I'd saved it to my "studies" file! I just hope all the info in it is correct from Dan's site, if that's where you got it.
I agree with this quote: <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div> ...as long as you've done your whatever until it stagnated and no longer is giving results. And your 'change' is something that follows the rules of hypertrophy or strength, depending on your goals. If he's talking about the "JOE WEIDER CONFUSION PRINCIPLE", he's off his nut, IMO.
OTOH, if you're doing something like barbell curls, then DB curls, then machine curls...I don't think the bicep really knows the difference, and it's certainly not 'confused'. It's doing the same thing regardless, but your synergistic musculature is being hit in different ways. Not consistently enough to benefit, I'll bet.
Sci: Holy Cow man! It made so much sense that I'd saved it to my "studies" file! I just hope all the info in it is correct from Dan's site, if that's where you got it.
scientific muscle
New Member
I got most of the info. from a physiology textbook, here is a link to a page about the subject, so you can find out for yourself:
Martini's Anatomy & Physiology; Chapter 10:Muscle Mechanics
Martini's Anatomy & Physiology; Chapter 10:Muscle Mechanics
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 29 2007,13:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I got most of the info. from a physiology textbook, here is a link to a page about the subject, so you can find out for yourself:
Martini's Anatomy & Physiology; Chapter 10:Muscle Mechanics</div>
Which BTW, has been posted on Hypertrophy-Research for 2+ years now
Not sure if Sci got it from there or not but I thought I would point it out anyway.
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 29 2007,13:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I got most of the info. from a physiology textbook, here is a link to a page about the subject, so you can find out for yourself:
Martini's Anatomy & Physiology; Chapter 10:Muscle Mechanics</div>
Which BTW, has been posted on Hypertrophy-Research for 2+ years now
Not sure if Sci got it from there or not but I thought I would point it out anyway.
<div>
(quadancer @ Apr. 29 2007,07:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div>
And your 'change' is something that follows the rules of hypertrophy or strength, depending on your goals.</div>
I like your example much better Quad, the blanket statement that this other guy made is rubbish. I can change from doing 5X5rm to doing 1X25rm and I doubt it's going to cause growth of anything other than the mitochondrial aspects, if that.
(quadancer @ Apr. 29 2007,07:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Every change that is performed to your bodybuilding workout will elicit an adaptation response from your body in the form of increased muscle growth.</div>
And your 'change' is something that follows the rules of hypertrophy or strength, depending on your goals.</div>
I like your example much better Quad, the blanket statement that this other guy made is rubbish. I can change from doing 5X5rm to doing 1X25rm and I doubt it's going to cause growth of anything other than the mitochondrial aspects, if that.
scientific muscle
New Member
99% of the research I know about I found at your site Dan...including that book.
btw, THANKS!
btw, THANKS!
Peak_Power
New Member
how did we get all those responses and no one mentioned this?
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/HSreport/iss03/index.html#art_1
Bryan is a very smart man, he's way ahead of you on this one guys
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/HSreport/iss03/index.html#art_1
Bryan is a very smart man, he's way ahead of you on this one guys
<div>
(Lol @ Apr. 30 2007,05:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Brilliant!
Anyone know if we will ever see another issue of the Think Muscle newsletter? Dan?</div>
Hard to say, Bryan and I are both busy with other pursuits. I would really like to see it come alive again consistently but I know I would have a hard time doing it all.
The problem is it's hard to find qualified writers. Most want to be paid and there simply isn't the funds available.
Alas, I think the old Meso and Thinkmuscle days are a thing of the past. But what I'll do is start a poll to see if there is enough interest.
(Lol @ Apr. 30 2007,05:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Brilliant!
Anyone know if we will ever see another issue of the Think Muscle newsletter? Dan?</div>
Hard to say, Bryan and I are both busy with other pursuits. I would really like to see it come alive again consistently but I know I would have a hard time doing it all.
The problem is it's hard to find qualified writers. Most want to be paid and there simply isn't the funds available.
Alas, I think the old Meso and Thinkmuscle days are a thing of the past. But what I'll do is start a poll to see if there is enough interest.