Have I stumbled onto something?

B

beetlejuice

New Member
I am currently completing my 9th cycle and about to enter my 10th SD.

I have noticed that during my 5's and into my neg's I begin to lose muscle tone,so much so that I began to consider dropping the last 3 weeks of the cycle and only completing one week of 5's.

That was until the 8th cycle when at the commencement of the 5's I decided to experiment by alternating one session of 5's and one session of 15's.I then continued this right through until the completion of the cycle.

The results have been incredible!

Not only have I continued to grow,but I think I have  actually increased the rate of growth and have also maintained unbelievable muscle tone into the bargain.

Have I stumbled onto something here?

Is it possible that the alternating of heavy weight low volume and light weight high volume has the effect of shocking the body into to growth?

And why is it that I lose so much muscle tone during the 5's?
 
Not sure what you mean bu "muscle tone"...Are you loosing size?

What you are describing sounds like working in metabolic sets during the heavy 5's and negs. There is something to it and alot of guys do it with good results.
 
Yeah sounds like metabolic work.

Maybe you dont respond well to the low rep range???

Maybe you have more slow twitch muscle fibers??
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not sure what you mean bu &quot;muscle tone&quot;...</div>

I gain size for sure,however the muscles,particularly around the chest region lose hardness/firmness.
ie go soft and spongy.

During 15's and 10's they are as hard as a rock.As I say,by alternating days between 15's and 5's towards the end of the cycle has been profound.

Does it have anything to do with the adaptation of the muscle to overload?
 
<div>
(beetlejuice @ Jun. 07 2006,23:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not sure what you mean bu &quot;muscle tone&quot;...</div>

I gain size for sure,however the muscles,particularly around the chest region lose hardness/firmness.
ie go soft and spongy.

During 15's and 10's they are as hard as a rock.As I say,by alternating days between 15's and 5's towards the end of the cycle has been profound.

Does it have anything to do with the adaptation of the muscle to overload?</div>
I think you're referring to the pump you have when doing the higher reps. If it conerns you that much, try adding in a lightweight, high rep (10-15) set for each muscle after your heavy sets.
 
Yeah, you've discovered metabolic work, which most people suggest using during negatives anyway. It isn't actually improving 'muscle tone' it is just keeping your muscles 'pumped' so they feel hard.
What you could do instead of what you are doing, is keep doing negatives 3 days a week but at the end of your routine, do 1 set of 15 reps for each major muscle group, so about 3-4 sets in total. That will keep you feeling pumped.
 
How many total reps are you doing for 5s as compared with 10s and 15s?

I actually think you aren't loosing 'tone' as such, just a bit of the tightness that you get from high rep work.

As the others have said, high rep stuff can be added in to the same workout but your approach is equally as valid as long as you are doing enough heavy reps. It might mean you are sacrificing some heavy work during the final stages of the cycle if you are only able to get two heavy w/os in a week. Easier on your joints though.

If you don't have time to add in the high rep sets to your 5s then doing a separate w/o for 15s seems quite a good idea but, for best results, I do think you need to get enough heavy work in too.
 
I found the same thing to a lesser extent. What I do now is keep all my reps at a total of 15. So, for example, with the 5's, I do one regular set of 5's immediately followed by 2 drop sets of 5 each.
 
2 drops sets of only 5 reps is enough to give you a pump old? I have to do at least 10 constant reps to feel any sort of burn after my intial two sets of 5 reps.
 
Yeah, sounds like metabolic work during the heavy load/low reps phase. I do pretty much what Totentanz suggested (for major bodyparts).
 
OG, so in the 5s you do dropsets the entire mini-cycle?


Sun-Tzu, i agree, to feel pumped i need more reps. perhaps an age factor (no ofense og)?
 
Yup, 1 regular set of 5's followed immediately by 2 drop sets of 5's with no rest in between, other than to change weights, is all I need. Could be an age thing but I doubt it. Also, remember that my current program uses more heavier weights and less lighter weights so I am always working close to my max.

The program can be seen here:

Current Program
 
I forgot to mention that during the 10's I do 1 regular set of 10 reps close to my max followed by 1 drop set of 5 reps close to my max. I strive to keep my total reps at 15 throughout all rep ranges.

Younger lifters or heavy steroid users probably have the ability to recover with more volume than that which I use. All programs need to be highly idividualized.
 
Do you think keeping the total reps the same across the entire cycle is better, regardless of who you are? It always sounded better to me. It ensures tonnage remains the same.

When you do your dropset of 5 reps during the 10's, and two dropsets of 5's during the 5's, how much do you drop off the weight? Why not just cluster up to 15 using the same load? I mean, 5 reps for a dropset doesn't give much metabolic work or anything.
 
Tonnage actually increases throughout the cycle because your are keeping the number of total reps the same.

I drop the weight to an amount that I think I can just do 5 more perfect reps with and no more without compromising form or tempo. If I have estimated too low, I slow my tempo down to compensate for that and still just hit my 5 reps.

This is a form of clustering without rest periods and keeping to 5 reps. The primary purpose is not to provide a metabolic stimulation, although you certainly get one, but to provide for 3 sets of 5 reps at max weight without rest. If my goal were more strength related, I would add in rest periods and my subsequent 2 sets would be at higher weights. However, when I do HST, or at least my modified form of it, as opposed to a 5X5 strength program, my goal is primarily hypertrophy which, at least in my case, I benefit more from continous sets as opposed to set, rest, set, rest, etc.

We all need to find what works best for us. A lot of it will depend on the composition of your muscle...slow twitch, fast twitch, etc. Following a certain training protocol is fine but you still have to tweak it to what you respond to. One of the biggest obstacles I ever had to overcome was getting my mind prepared to try something new and different. For whatever reason, it is very hard to get a mindset to experiment as you think you will be &quot;losing&quot; out by not continuing your same routine. The one that may have not produced results for years as in my case.

Beetlejuice broke ranks and experimented and found something that really works well for him now. That's a pretty good example to follow.
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