Help a Fat Guy

[tucsonpoolguy]

I have read through everything about HST and it sounds like it's really effective, but I could definitely use some advice as to how to make it work for me.  I am completely new to working out.  I'm 33 yo, 5'10" and in Jan. I weighed 265... I have switched over to clean eating and just started working out 6 wks ago and am down to 235 as of last Fri.... currently I am going to the gym Mon. - Fri. and I do 30 min. on the treadmill keeping my heart rate at 150 and then I do some resistance training (all on machines since I don't really know much about free weights)
Mon. - Chest/Tris
Tue. - Legs
Wed.- Shoulders/Back
Thur.- Bis/Abs
Fri. - Chest/Tris
and I've been alternating my Chest/Tris and Shoulders/Back every other week.  I know it has a lot to be desired but I had to start somewhere.  I'd really like to try the HST program to get the most results possible out of my efforts... I could also use some ideas for some alternatives to chins/dips as I'm sure I can't lift my BW as of yet.  Any ideas/comments/suggestions??

 

[Jake]

Hi Tuscon-
Welcome to the HST board, and congrats on your losses so far! Don't feel apologetic- you've made great progress (even if it perhaps a little fast, but more on that in a minute). Yes, I'd say that HST would be a great program for you. I've found that when I explain it to people who are just starting out, it's easiest to approach it from one of two directions. First, you could do the "basic" program- 3 days/week, full-body each workout. Second, if you have the time, you could do 6-day/week split- I prefer push-pull, but that's me- you could split by region as you've done as well. If you can add a sixth day to your routine, you might try the latter.
All that said, the machines are fine, at least for now. As to chins- if you have access to a chinning machine, that's great, but I take it that you don't, but not to worry. You can use a support (like a chair, or bench) for your feet, and do assisted chins that way. As you progress, concentrate on using less support, making your back (and bis, if you're doing chins and not pull-ups) do more and more of the work. Another approach is to concentrate on doing just negative chins- use a bench or chair so you can stand up to the bar. Let your legs go, and let yourself down, working against your body weight. Either way, eventually you'll be able to chin your BW (and more). The same approach can work for dips, BTW.
In the meantime, as you add strength, you could do alternative lifts- like lat pulldowns for chins/pull-ups and incline bench presses for dips.
As to your weight loss- congrats again- I did the same thing- went from 225 to 165 in a matter of about 2.5 months. I was exercising like a bat out of hell- lots of cardio and lifting, plus I was doing some *serious* caloric reduction (like 1500cal/day). It worked, and if I had to do it again, I would, but I still think it's best to aim for about 1-1.5lb/week. Slow and steady wins the race, IMO.
Feel free to post your w/o and diet plan if you want more feedback- we're all happy to help!

 

[Bob Evans]

I agree with Jake. When I started I did "basic" HST and ran on the off days. I droped about 25lbs in a few months. Then started bulking on HST. With HST you can get an almost arobic work-out if you want to. Then after you have droped the weight you are primed.

Bob

 

[imported_domineaux]

Losing weight and adding lean muscle at the same time requires a fine balance of training and diet.
 
I lost 40+ lbs on Atkins. I was physically drained when I finally hit my target weight.  I didn't weight train, because I knew it would be futile effort.  By that I mean I knew I'd have a great deal more food cravings.  You're looking at a target weight for 24% body fat at like 170+ lbs.  That is a big job.

If I had to do it again, I think I'd still do the Atkins thing first.
If I would have added an hour each day on the treadmill I'd have probably got rid of the weight a lot sooner.

When you're overweight you weight train every time you move.  Seriously, you're constantly lugging around a lot of baggage.
 
I'm not sure HST is the way to go, or any weight training for that matter.  That is when you're that far overweight. I do think HST is a better way to weight train when you're trying to get lean muscled big.

Getting weight off by exercise is a toughy.  You have to burn appx. 4,000 calories to lose one pound of fat.  You can hit the Atkins or South Beach Diet and lose the pounds easier.  THe best part of those diets is you'll learn the value of Protein, fat and just how carbohydrates work within your body. You'll just be a great deal more knowledgeable about nutrition.

Then with the pounds off, you can keep the fundamental maintenance diets from either diet.  This way weight training and proper diet will be an easy transition.

I'd suggest if you have to weight train remember you're body is gonna crave food.  If you don't have good knowledge of how the food you're eating is affecting your body...you could actually be worse off than before.  You might get either of those diet books and read carefully.  Diet not dieting is always an issue even when you're physically fit.

As far as weight training I'd suggest high reps with lighter weights to get you body adjusted. Do exercises that involve as many body parts as possible.

Walking on a treadmill is great exercise if you can keep your heart rate at close to 70% of maximum heart rate for appx. 45 minutes to 1 hour daily. You can do this when you're on a diet like Atkins or South Beach and you'll definitely get results.
If you can't hold 70% of MHR then back off and work towards it by degrees. After you've been using a treadmill for a while you'll know your limits. Also, you don't have to run. You just elevate the treadmill and the extra workload will push your heartrate up.
 
I'm sure there are others that have lost as much or weight than myself who'd be glad to share. It's not going to be easy, but at your age it is a very possible and shouldn't be too difficult.
 
This is probably the most important thing to remember. Do what you can consistently. Getting in shape and losing that much weight is not an overnight thing...stay disciplined and push for your goal, you'll get results.

Good luck
 

 

[tucsonpoolguy]

Thank you so much for the reply and support. I am definitely gonna give this a shot. Tomorrow I will work on getting my 10 RM and use one of the calculations to figure out my 5 and 15 RM. I think I'll do the 3x a week plan and do cardio on the "rest" days... should I use one day, like Sun. to rest completely? I'm pretty consistent (maybe even too consistent) with my diet. Breakfast 4:45 a.m. Oatmeal and a Banana.... Protein shake and grape juice PWO snack.... Tuna fish on whole wheat tortilla or whole wheat bread, 1 c. carrots and 1 apple for lunch.... couple handfuls of peanuts or almonds and cottage cheese for afternoon snack.... my only variation is at dinner, usually chicken or fish, sometimes lean beef, salad, green beans, brown rice, cottage cheese, tuna melt w/ fat free cheese. I think (think, being the key word) that my diet is in order, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.
Thanks again

 

[Jake]

I'd rest one day a week, definitely. Your diet looks good for content, although it's hard to tell without quantities how many cals that adds up to. I suspect, though, that you're carrying a nice deficit, or you wouldn't be losing weight! I can't agree more with domineaux' statement:

Quote[/b] ]Do what you can consistently

That's absolutely critical!
Keep up the great work!!

 

[imported_doitright orgohome]

try and get at least 6 meals per day. consusting of low GI carbs and always have protein with every meal.
at your weight fella your gonna need to be taking in at least 235 g of protein per day. 1 per lb of body weight
taking less than that per day will cause your body to canabalise its own protein ( your muscle ) to fuelits needs, seeing as muscle burns calories this is not a good thing !!.
you also need to get some EFA's into your diet
approx 20% of your daily calories should come from fats.
going low to no carb does not make you lose weight. it does however screw with your hormonal balance.
it is after all a calorie defecit that looses weight
the most effecient way to diet is go for one that has a ratio
of 40% carbs 40% protein 20% fat.
heading for this diet split makes sure your getting a well balanced diet with all essential nutrients covered. its not worth getting ill just to get slim
as for a calorie defecit, the best way is to work out your calorie maintainance level and then eat 500-600 less calories per day.
this will lead to about 1 - 1.5 lbs OF FAT not MUSCLE per week.
any more weight loss and your metabolism will slow and then you will stop loosing weight.
thats when the weight gain will begin again as you become fed up with not loosing weight and start eating normally again. and seeing as your metabolism will be at a standstill you will gain fat at a scary rate.
hope this is of some help

 

[imported_domineaux]

Quote[/b] (tucsonpoolguy @ May 12 2005,11:19)]Thank you so much for the reply and support.  I am definitely gonna give this a shot.  Tomorrow I will work on getting my 10 RM and use one of the calculations to figure out my 5 and 15 RM.  I think I'll do the 3x a week plan and do cardio on the "rest" days... should I use one day, like Sun. to rest completely?  I'm pretty consistent (maybe even too consistent) with my diet.  Breakfast 4:45 a.m. Oatmeal and a Banana.... Protein shake and grape juice PWO snack.... Tuna fish on whole wheat tortilla or whole wheat bread, 1 c. carrots and 1 apple for lunch.... couple handfuls of peanuts or almonds and cottage cheese for afternoon snack.... my only variation is at dinner, usually chicken or fish, sometimes lean beef, salad, green beans, brown rice, cottage cheese, tuna melt w/ fat free cheese.  I think (think, being the key word) that my diet is in order, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.
Thanks again

I don't agree with your diet nor weight training to start.

If you weight train and want to build muscle you've got to put down a lot of protein.  If you use a product like Optimum Nutrition protein powder in shakes, two scoops is 46 grams of protein and appx 220 calories with water and ice.   Your weight being 260+ you'll need appx 6 protein shakes at 2 scoops per shake. That's 1300+ calories just in shakes to build muscle.  My gosh....how many calories can you add to that and still lose weight.

Oatmeal is carbs...apples?
You need to lose your taste for bread, forget anything that even looks like bread, potatoes, or is sugar rich.
Even today the only bread I eat is Eziekiel bread, 3 slices a week, which I only started eating after I'd lost all my weight and finished 2 cyles on HST.

Why I mentioned Atkins or South Beach diet is because the books explain very carefully how to balance your diet for weight loss and maintenance of your health. The books explain how to read and understand food labels, which is critical information for dieters and bodybuilders.  Everyone should learn to read the labels to maintain good health.
The problem with weight training and this kind of weight loss you will have to have carbs to balance out.  THe carbs can kill your weight losses very quickly.  A couple days on too many carbs and you're back where you started.

You can make a stab at the weight loss thing with weight training, but I think you'll become discouraged.  It's just too darn tough, because you have a great deal of weight to lose.
You've got to eat for muscle growth. I'm telling you now your body is gonna be screaming for food.

Heck, I know how tough it is.  You're planning your diet with weight training is just another excuse to eat.  I know what it is to be hungry, and I know how tough it is to think about not eating. Your biggest battle is going to be with yourself and the food.

I still say if you're serious get on a low carb diet, follow the diet rigidly and knock off about 60 pounds before taking on weight training.

Theoretically anything is possible, but you're not a few pounds over-weight.  You've got a serious weight problem and you'd better go at it with a serious discipline to lose it.

I'm really not a hard guy...forgive me if I sound that way. I've found big weight losses require a very tough approach to food intake.

Again, think about it...you've got to lose appx. 1/3 of your total weight to be at reasonable body fat level. That is a heck of a lot of weight to lose. I can tell you this as well. When you're on one of those diets your body will adapt just like it does with bodybuilding, and you'll hit flat spots where you can't lose another single pound for weeks on end. It's not going to be easy any way you go at it.

 

[Bob Evans]

A book I liked is Protien Power - it is an Akins esq high protien low carb approach. The thing is you can eat alot -- just protien and no or low low carbs.

I used to wrestle and that is -- by definition lifting and dieting.

lots of protien -- low carbs. HST some cardio will do it. But it ain't easy You will feel a little tired and "spaced out''

But if you do it this way you will be in a good regiment for when you hit your target weight and want to maintenance or to gain muscle. The lifting and workout disapline will be invaluable over the long haul.

Bob

 

[jonnycashman]

I respectfully disagree with domineaux's post that you should not train with weights and seek out a "diet" plan instead. Consistant excercise and weight training is the healthiest and most effective path to long term weight loss when coupled with a BALANCED nutrition plan. You have obviously decided to make a committment to fitness and dropping 30 lbs since January suggests you are serious about it. To make it work you need to change your lifestyle not simply cut carbs from your diet. Atkins and Southbeach are fad diets and while many have lost weight on them, many people have also gained the weight right back because they are not sustainable or safe for the long-term. Also, you don't need to be drinking "6 protien shakes a day to build muscle". You need carbs to build muscle. Try doitrightorgohome's suggestion of 40/40/20 macronutrient eating plan spread out over 6 meals and make sure you are taking in enough calories. I would also recommend trying the 3 day a week full body workout with moderate cardio the other 3 days with one day of no excercise. You will see results. Have you looked into the Body for life program? It is also a good option for new lifters.

 

[xahrx]

I used to 400 Tucson. Keep at it, follow the basic advice. A 40/40/20 split for a diet is a great diet. If you want, PM me and I can put you on to a personal trainer that works wonders with people and gives them a good education in diet and training as well.

 

[imported_domineaux]

Quote[/b] (jonnycashman @ May 13 2005,4:06)]I respectfully disagree with domineaux's post that you should not train with weights and seek out a "diet" plan instead.  Consistant excercise and weight training is the healthiest and most effective path to long term weight loss when coupled with a BALANCED nutrition plan.  You have obviously decided to make a committment to fitness and dropping 30 lbs since January suggests you are serious about it.  To make it work you need to change your lifestyle not simply cut carbs from your diet.  Atkins and Southbeach are fad diets and while many have lost weight on them, many people have also gained the weight right back because they are not sustainable or safe for the long-term.  Also, you don't need to be drinking "6 protien shakes a day to build muscle".  You need carbs to build muscle.  Try doitrightorgohome's suggestion of 40/40/20 macronutrient eating plan spread out over 6 meals and make sure you are taking in enough calories.  I would also recommend trying the 3 day a week full body workout with moderate cardio the other 3 days with one day of no excercise.  You will see results.  Have you looked into the Body for life program?  It is also a good option for new lifters.

Pardon me, but all those high sounding paragraphs don't cut it when you're hungry as a bear.

Point blank, have you ever had to lose that much weight? If so maybe you can explain just how you did it.

I lost 40 lbs on Atkins and there is nothing fad about it. Atkins even wrote a book for living a low carb lifestyle.

Losing weight needs to be simple enough you can deal with it. If you're hungry as a bear trying to find a middle ground between weight training and diet it's too distracting and difficult.

The weight will come off faster with a diet, and walking vigourously on the treadmill. When he starts getting close to his target weight he can jump into weight training.

Walking on a treadmill for 1 hour a day isn't as easy as it might appear, especially when you start elevating the thing 6-9 degrees and walk at 3.5 MPH. The treadmill will burn appx 450 calories at 6 degrees of elevation x 3.5 MPH. His lower body will tone up nicely and if he moves his arms the upper body will get plenty of exercise as well. The treadmill definitely shouldn't be looked at as...some girlie man machine.

I wouldn't have a problem asking someone that needs to lose 20 lbs to jump right into weight training. This guy has lost 30 lbs and needs to lose another 60 lbs to be at close to fit weight or appx 24% BF. Think about that...90 lbs of weight loss, is a monstrous task. The first 10 to 15% of weight loss is easy...it's the pounds after that, which are killer tough.

One thing about it...it's his call and he's gonna do exactly what he wants regardless of anything we say. I just think it's wise to listen to people who have been through the fire to tell you how hot the fire is.

 

[Totentanz]

Regardless, weight training while losing weight is still the best way to maintain your lean body mass while losing the fat.

 

[Jake]

Totentanz is right. And ultimately, losing weight is all about the calories. You can, and will, lose weight just as, if not more, successfully using a standard calorie-based diet (ADA, Weight Watchers, whatever) as any other diet out ther *as long as* the cals in are less than the cals out. Sure, you can lose weight on Atkins or South Beach- no one would dispute that. But I think it's quite incorrect to pose these plans as some kind of magic bullet- they aren't, any more than a standard calorie diet is. In the last analysis, the plan that's going to result in the most, and most long-lasting, weight loss is one that is balanced on diet and exercise, AND is comfortable for the individual. If a person can't/won't stick with the plan, then it doesn't really matter what plan it is, no? This is one case where one size definitely doesn't fit all!

 

[imported_gripstrength]

I both agree and disagree with Dom on this one. Not only did I lose 40 pounds on an adequate-protein, restricted carb diet, my blood profile improved, too: my cholesterol dropped from over 200 to 169. I felt perfectly fine--not sluggish or cranky--and ate this way for three years. Only started adding complex carbs again because I was trying to bulk. (First time in my life I ever deliberately tried to gain weight.) So yeah, I think an Atkins-like diet is an effective and healthy way to lose and/or maintain.

However, I strongly disagree with the advice that Tucson should avoid weight training while he's trying to lose fat. Adding lean mass is the very best way to ramp up your metabolism. Each pound of muscle you carry jacks up your BMR by 50 calories a day. If Tuscon puts on a mere five pounds of muscle, he'll burn 250 extra calories a day just sitting on his butt. That adds up to 1,750 calories a week, and 7,000 calories in one month.

While it's generally true that you have to eat above maintenance levels in order to gain muscle, it's NOT necessarily true for people who are fairly overweight. I speak from personal experience: I was able to put on muscle while dieting--but only because I was fat. When I reached a reasonable bodyweight, I hit a plateau in muscular gains. That only changed when I started taking in more carbs and eating above maintenance.

 

[Dood]

Quote[/b] (gripstrength @ May 14 2005,10:33)]However, I strongly disagree with the advice that Tucson should avoid weight training while he's trying to lose fat. Adding lean mass is the very best way to ramp up your metabolism. Each pound of muscle you carry jacks up your BMR by 50 calories a day. If Tuscon puts on a mere five pounds of muscle, he'll burn 250 extra calories a day just sitting on his butt. That adds up to 1,750 calories a week, and 7,000 calories in one month.

Exactly. Weight train to at least preserve and maybe gain muscle mass, otherwise you'll lose muscle along with your fat which can LOWER your BMR

 

[tucsonpoolguy]

Thank you all for the advice... I think I am going to stick with my diet as I have been for several months now, since it is working thus far, except maybe adding some more protein. I also am not buying into the idea of not weight training since as I am losing weight I have been still getting stronger, I can't see how that is a bad thing. I do believe that I am going to stick to my previous routine however and wait until I progress further in my weight loss before attempting the HST style routine. Thanks again for all the feedback