Help me please!

C

cheeto-man

New Member
Help. I have been training for a number of years (18) and have had little success recently (last 5 years).

I have tried HST - first time was 3-4 years ago, before that HIT as did everyone else it seems - without much to show for it. I have read as much as I can on this forum and seem to get more confused each time I log on (there is a lot said, alot of it seemingly contradictory) I have tried the proposed workout as posted on the site and a number of variations as promoted by various members of this forum.

Most recently, I tried a 6X/week program using an A and B scheme with 1 set for each exercise:

A:
Squat
SDSL
Incline bench
seated row
close grip pull down
upright row
shrugs
skull crushers
bbell curl calves

B:
Squat
leg extensions
pull up
dip
cable fly
OHP
shrug
skull crusher
bbell curl
calves

rep ranges of 15, 11, 7 for upper body ( i like higher rep ranges) and 20, 15, 10 for legs with 2 weeks at each rep range.

This started out great. For 2 cycles I made good gains. Now I had to stop mid cycle because my elbows are KILLING me.

I have a sense this is too much - i say this in all seriousness b/c i really have no idea.

can someone help me devise a workout that is sensible and that will give me a chance at success, given my experience?

I have been a member here for a while but prefer to read rather than write as I am no expert. I respect many of the contributors here - especially O&G, Fausto, etc. and follow what they say as best I can. (Although I confess to having given up the board when O&G signed off - I just looked last week and am thrilled he's back on line)

Please don't refer me to a search as I have done that many times and I always end up more confused than ever.

Thanks for any help you may have.

38 years old
6'4"
220
BF ? haven't been tested in years but am long and lanky
 
Remember, the main key is going to be your diet while you are doing HST. If you want to get leaner, eat under maintenance - if you want to bulk, you should overeat.

The best lifts to use would be these:

Deadlifts
Squats
BB Bentover Rows
Bench Press (preferably incline)
Military or other Overhead Press
Weighted Chins
Weighted Dips

You can do them all in the same routine, or alternate. Lately, I like to do 2 sets of each through the 15s and 10s, then start alternating once I get into the 5s, doing 3-4 sets for each at that point. I also suggest supersetting as much as possible.

Here's what it would look like if you alternated:

Workout A:

Squats
Bench/BB Bentover row (superset
Overhead Press

Workout B:

Deadlifts
Chins/Dips
Military Press

This is a great routine for overall mass... but like I said, the main factor in your success will be how much you eat. Remember to eat over maintenance and remember to increase how much you eat as you grow larger. Too many guys just eat 500 over maintenance the whole cycle then wonder why their growth slows as the cycle progresses.

Good luck.
 
Wise words about the diet... Anyway, I believe too that the elbow pain is due to the skullcrushers. When something like this happens (sometime late in the cycle, late 5's or post-5's), I usually forget about isolations and focus on the major compounds. Arm iso's after weighted chins and dips can be a bit too much (depending on the person of course), maybe that's why you feel you overdo it.
 
Thanks for the replies - would you add any direct arm work? ie tris and/or bis? also what about frequency, and do you always follow the 2x15, 2x10, 3-4x5 or some other scheme? i know O&G follows a 1 set pattern. i like the 1 set but is volume dropping too low? can you compensate this by increasing frequency? thanks
 
I generally prefer 1 x 15/2 x 10/3 x 5 and negs.

My next cycle I am going to try:

2 x 15/3 x 10/6 x 5 and negs.

The whole idea of maintaining a even volume seems to work well for most of us!

However, yes, you can compensate with frequency, but watch closely how your body reacts.
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I had a problem with a screwed elbow and it took about 2 cycles before I could dip properly again. Def drop certain isos during 5s. Theres not too much need for them if you dont need to work on specific muscles. I do dips/chins for tris/bis. Getting plenty of growth too.
 
Hey Cheeto! It's been a while mate.

I would definitely drop the skull crushers and the upright rows. They are shoulder and elbow stressors.

I like Tot's suggested program but think it would be even better as as a twice per day, 1 set routine. However, it will require mega calories as your metabolism will never shut down. I liked the every day and twice/day routines I did and made good gains with them. However, I found that after a couple of cycles I started to burn out a bit. Now I do an A/B/C routine but always working close to my max. Here is a link to that routine:

Current Cycle

It is not for a beginner or a stressed out lifter but works good for me as long as I get a good long SD brtween cycles and do a short warm up first.
 
O&G thank goodness you're back. i'd given up this forum when you signed off.

i've been trying to study your WOs (as many as i could find) and like the idea of 1 set with more frequency but wonder - when you are doing your AB am/pm spilt for instnce does that mean you squat in the am and deadlift in the pm? is this difficult and/or time consuming?

also when you were doing your 6 day WO were you going 2x/day? don't know if i have the time or energy for that.

by the way also very interested in the test. issue you raised in earlier posts. never even crossed my mind before.

finally, for TOT and O&G (and others), when you list chin ups i assume you mean palms facing toward you (rather than palms facing away) just want calrification. thanks
 
When doing a 6 day per week workout, I would do double the volume of the twice per day workout. Most of my twice per day workouts were 4 compund sets;
A typical twice daily wokout would be something like:

AM
Incline Bench
Military Press
Chin Up
Squat

PM
Dips
Pull ups or one arm rows
Shrugs
Leg Press

Squat and Deadlift in the same day would be too much for my back.
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If I were doing just one routine per day 6 times per week, it would be simply be the above routine combined. For the 5's, I might do an additional metabolic set in the PM.

I have now gone back to a plain vanilla 3 day per week workout. I think it is good to swith up every now and then plus I don't have as much energy as some of you young squirts. Also, some of you unmarried guys have the world's most compelling urge nagging at you all the time...SEX!
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It makes for a great motivator.

I consider chin ups to be hands facing your body and pull ups to be hands facing away from the body. An interesting variation that I recently came across is a hybrid. One hand uses a pull up grip and the other hand uses a chin up grip. Then you switch positions for a second set. It allows the pull up side to do a couple of more reps than merely using both hands in the pull up position.
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