Help Understanding a Few Things

W

wisslewj

New Member
Hey Guys,

I have a few questions about the program that the instructions didnt clear up for me.

First off, I just came off of an 8 week split training routine and want to now try HST. Should I take the 9-12 day break before starting HST? I will say that after gaining 20 pounds in the first 7 weeks, the 8th week I seemed to plateu and stop the gains. Hence maybe some SD is in need?

Second, I dont understand exactly how my overall weight is increased through the routine beyond what I started being able to lift. For example, if I understand rightly, on day ONE I figure my maxes for the 15 range, the 10 range, and the 5 range.

Since I end each mesocycle at the weight I started with, how does one ever increase the weight lifted? I mean, I assume one would gain some strength during the routine and it seems that one must gain SOME strength to gain more mass. ( I have never seen a huge guy that was a TOTAL weenie lol) My thinking is that after 2 weeks of 15, one should be at least a bit stronger and so the weight for 10's would be too easy? And even more so for the 5's?

Perhaps I am not understanding how to propperlly set the weights. As I see it, If today I can lift 160 LBS for 15, 200 for 10 and 220 for 5, that is the same thing I will be lifting 6 weeks from now?...I will just have gained body mass? And then when I do my new maxes for another session they will be higher? I assume some strength must come?

I woud appreciate any help getting this right so I properlly do the program. Thanks so much!
Jeff
 
Again, it is all in the FAQ...long read.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST's method of using submaximal weights at the beginning of the cycle is based on the fact that the effectiveness of a given load to stimulate growth is dependant on the condition of the tissue at the time the load is applied. This is a very important concept for natural lifters. It is also based on the need to maintain the health (injury free) of the tissues.

You can't really apply the external load based simply on the capacity to do so, and expect to the muscle to respond the way you want it to (growth). Too much weight too soon, even though you can lift it, will not always result in an optimal hypertrophic response. Not only that, but the greater the load, the greater the response to build resistance to it, and/or get injured.

Why not just do as many reps as possible (A.K.A. train at “100% intensity”, or “train to failure”) for every increment/workout instead of changing it only every 2 weeks? Because when using sufficient frequency to stimulate rapid hypertrophy, you tend to get CNS burn out. Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to train at “100% intensity” to grow quickly. This is a very unpopular statement to experienced lifters who have prided themselves on torturous workouts. They take pride in their toughness and in their willingness to self inflict nauseating exhaustion workout after workout. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. As long as it is not taught as the correct way to train for “growth”.

HST incorporates ever increasing loads in order to stay ahead of the adaptive curve. This curve is set by the tissues level of conditioning at the time the load is applied. This is as much an art as a science. Because we can't do a biopsy of the muscles every time we train, we have to guess how much, how hard, and how often, based on the available research an the &quot;feeling&quot; of the tissue at the time. Why use submax weights? Because using max weights eventually stops working, and simply increases the risk of injury.

Why not just do as many reps as possible (A.K.A. train at “100% intensity”, or “train to failure”) for every increment/workout instead of changing it only every 2 weeks? Because when using sufficient frequency to stimulate rapid hypertrophy, you tend to get CNS burn out. Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to train at “100% intensity” to grow quickly. This is a very unpopular statement to experienced lifters who have prided themselves on torturous workouts. They take pride in their toughness and in their willingness to self inflict nauseating exhaustion workout after workout. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. As long as it is not taught as the correct way to train for “growth”.

So why not train one maximal day only, then utilize &quot;complete rest&quot; thus preserving adaptive energies?

There is no need to preserve &quot;adaptive energies&quot;. This is a false notion. These adaptive energies are, in reality, the ability of the CNS to recover voluntary strength. Early &quot;thinkers&quot; noticed the effect of stress on health and compared that to the effects of heavy resistance exercise on strength and came to the conclusion that there was some pool of &quot;adaptive energies&quot; that was limited. Use it all up and you can't recover. What they had not realized was that there are fundamental differences between mechanical loading and Selye's stress model. This caused them to confuse the limitations of the CNS with the resilience of muscle tissue.

Muscle tissue, as indicated earlier, has been shown to recover amidst continued loading. Take for example &quot;synergistic ablation&quot; studies. In these studies the gastrocnemius of an animal is cut so that the standing load is placed almost entirely on the soleus. In these studies the animal’s soleus is subject to a dramatic increase in load during every waking hour. There is no &quot;rest between sets or workouts&quot; or any kind of sets or workouts for that matter. There is no time off to allow &quot;adaptive energies&quot; to do their magic. Nevertheless, the soleus will double in size and weight within days. The muscle literally grows and adapts to the new &quot;environment&quot; while being continually loaded. Now I'm not suggesting that people have this done to get their stubborn calves to grow, but it does illustrate an important point. Which is - the muscle can adapt while it is being loaded, or trained. The tissue does not necessarily need time off. The central nervous system, on the other hand, does need time off. The amount of time off it needs depends on how much &quot;fatigue&quot; was induced.

Please try to avoid &quot;forced reps&quot;. During the concentric phase push on the weight but make sure it goes up &quot;quickly&quot;. If you are doing an exercise that requires a partner, and he can no longer lift the weight up quickly, you're done.

Fatigue actually &quot;decreases&quot; the damage caused by eccentric reps. The fibers have to be actively contracting while lengthening in order to cause the &quot;right&quot; kind of microtrauma.</div>
 
All the veteran HSTers I know have gained substantial strength over the course of training. After the second week of 5s, you can keep increasing the loads each workout until you hit your new 5 rep max. Then you can continue to use that load or do negatives and then SD and restart.
 
I have read the faq already a few times. I am asking these questions because I wasnt sure I understood it right and I want to give this the best chance to work, which means making sure I am following the routine right. Hence my questions lol.

Also I did read about the negatives and such, but I even have a question about that.

I though HST was submaximal loads frequently. Negatives are overmaximal loads are they not? And wont that lead to CNS burnout quite fast?

Thanks for the help
Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 17 2007,23:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1. First off, I just came off of an 8 week split training routine and want to now try HST.  Should I take the 9-12 day break before starting HST?  I will say that after gaining 20 pounds in the first 7 weeks, the 8th week I seemed to plateu and stop the gains. Hence maybe some SD is in need?

2. I dont understand exactly how my overall weight is increased through the routine beyond what I started being able to lift.

3.Negatives are overmaximal loads are they not?  And wont that lead to CNS burnout quite fast?
 </div>
1. yes
2. Because changes in strength are not immediately manifested. Therefore re-test your maxes at the end of the cycle before you SD again. This will translate to your next cycle loads.
3.Yes, but you are only doing a very limited amount of them and only at the end of the cycle, therefore you are going into SD anyway and any detriment to strength isn't a worry.

Now there are options and alternatives and of course in depth explanations but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at this.
 
Thanks Dan!

I Think I got it then.

-Figure my maxes.
-Work up to each at the end of the 2 weeks
-After the cycle and before my SD, figure out my maxes for the next routine.
-SD and then start again wit hmy new maxes.

Ok, assuming that is right, I have one last question. I have been reading that you can divide workouts or even double them by going morning and night. However, if one doubles it, sets should be kept low. From personal experience, what seems to work best for people? I am a very fast healer but want to do this right.

So, would doubling my workout morning and night at 2 sets morning and 2 sets night be too much? That would then be a total of 4 sets of say incline bench for the day and 12 for the week. Perhaps this many is best only for a specific muscle you need to emphasize and not all muscles? Or maybe its just fine if ya heal quick?

Just curious what peope have done with success in regards to this.

Thanks for all the help!
Jeff
 
Ok, lets see if I can help.

1 - You find your rep maxes for each rep range 15/10 and 5. Alternative is to find out your 1 rep max as well.

2 - You set up your cycle so that you will hit the rep max for each rep range in six workouts.

3 - You start each rep range roughly at 70% of the rep max and increase 5 - 10 % p/session until you reach the rep max, Alternatives here are:

15 - Aim to hit 70 - 75% of 1 RM on last workout
10 - Aim to hit 80 - 85% of 1 RM on last workout
05 - Aim to hit 90 - 95% of 1 RM on last workout
negs - Aim to hit 100 - 120% of 1 RM on last workout

4 - Negatives are bigger than your 5 RM, but only the eccentric portion of the exercise is performed, therefore are mostly performed with partner, except for dips/chins/curls with d/b's/tricep extensions with d/b's

5 - If no partner is available, it is acceptable to &quot;milk&quot; the 5 RM's way into week 7 and beyond that, start trying to do 3 RM or even 2RM, if I am making any sense.

Hope this helps a bit.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I though HST was submaximal loads frequently.</div>

And it is, except the last day of each rep scheme where failure is acceptable, however that means: loss of form or too slow a rep, not absolute muscle failure, and that would be your last rep or two.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Negatives are overmaximal loads are they not? And wont that lead to CNS burnout quite fast?</div>

They are, but this is done with a partner and only for the eccentric part of the exercise.

If done correctly the CNS will hold just fine.
 
Hey Fausto,

If I am following your point number 3 correctly, you would find your 1 rep max, say 200lbs. Since you are aiming for say 75% at the end of your cycle of 15's, you would count backwards by percentages rather then pounds?

So, the first 2 weeks would look like this: 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 70%, 75%. Do I have this right? And then the same would go for the 10's and 5's? I like the way this sounds if I am saying it correctly!

Thanks again...and again ;)
Jeff
 
Jeff

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
If I am following your point number 3 correctly, you would find your 1 rep max, say 200lbs. Since you are aiming for say 75% at the end of your cycle of 15's, you would count backwards by percentages rather then pounds? </div>

Yes, it is better, as that would help if you using D/B's for instance, I only work with %'s myself!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So, the first 2 weeks would look like this: 45%, 50%, 55%, 60%, 70%, 75%. Do I have this right? And then the same would go for the 10's and 5's? I like the way this sounds if I am saying it correctly!</div>

You gotcha! You will find some amount of zigzagging (weights going backwards in load even though you going into a new repo scheme, this is fine, provided it does not go back too far, say no more than two workouts back, make sense?

That is it! Now go hit the weights and happy HST'ying.
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Hey Fausto,

Thanks. Sounds good. I am gonna find my maxes today and then do some SD from my last routine. How much SD do you find best. I have read 7 days, 9 and even 12?

Also, any comments on my question about doubling up? I posted it just before you posted your first reply so you may have missed it. (just scroll up) I think we were submitting at the same time! lol.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks. Sounds good. I am gonna find my maxes today and then do some SD from my last routine. How much SD do you find best. I have read 7 days, 9 and even 12?</div>

Opinions vary, minumum is 9 days, which effectively means stopping Friday, being off or a week then re-starting the Monday after that! YOu can go all the way to 21 days, generally tyhe more conditioned you are the longer you should SD, 14days is a confortable zone, but hey 9 is better than none!
biggrin.gif


<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, any comments on my question about doubling up?</div>

Leave that for now,Morning/afternoon workouts rock,but you should first try straight HST and get the feel of it, then after 2 - 3 good cycles, you can play
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Genreally those are brief, so that you can hit the iron good and solid without frying your CNS, there are various ways,splits like upper body/Lower body, Push/Pull, and basic repeat cycles, which can be even simpler but effective. As I said, leave those for now!
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OK, I am now on rest until the monday after this one. A week and a half of sitting around lol ... this is gonna be rough!

Anyway, in regards to exercise selection, I am curious about tweaking the vanilla program. I would really like to emphasize my shoulders and chest and downplay my arms as they are already good sized.

What would be the best way to do this? I had a few ideas. One, just cut out arm exercises all together or do them every other. Two, add an extra set or 2 to the chest and shoulder sets. Or three, a combo of adding 1 set and lessing arm work.

Has anyone had experience focusing on parts with HST with any success?

Also, why chin ups instead of wide grip pullups? I have always found pull ups a better back execise. Is there a specific reason chins were chosen?

Thanks for all the help you guys are offering. I appreciate it.

Jeff
 
Jeff

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would really like to emphasize my shoulders and chest and downplay my arms as they are already good sized.</div>

Just drop your arm exercises to 1 set, one for bi's and one for tris in one superset.

Chest - superset bench + dips
Shoulders - alternate Military press/Lateral raises + bent over raises, after the 5's proceed to Push presses.

This should do it.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, why chin ups instead of wide grip pullups? I have always found pull ups a better back execise. Is there a specific reason chins were chosen?</div>

Close-reverse grip chinups hits the biceps well for one and secondly they provide better stretch as well as being ablew to allow a much larger load (weighted chins hanging from a dip belt).
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Has anyone had experience focusing on parts with HST with any success?</div>

Since sticking with solid compound exercises, I have had the best results.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, why chin ups instead of wide grip pullups? I have always found pull ups a better back execise. Is there a specific reason chins were chosen?</div>

Chins really hit your arms (and abs) in addition to your lats.
 
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