Help with plateau

O

onemoreset

New Member
Hi again,

I've been doing HST for a year now (never lifted before that), and I gained 20 lbs in 6 months. However after that I stopped seeing weight gains. I eat ~500 calories over maintenance, and I've gotten a noticeable belly, which I didn't have before. In addition, I eat full meals before and after each workout, and stuff myself on the entire workout day. Workouts last 1 hour or less.

Strangely, while I made strength gains on a few muscle groups, mostly my maxes haven't increased at all.

The problem might be because I break out like crazy on protein powders, so I only use whole food, and sometimes 6 or 7 eggs in a blender.

Is this the problem, or something else? What alternatives do I have?

Help.
 
onemoreset

I am not teh nutrition expert around here, but seems to me you have to take a closer look at your nutrition, you either are ingesting more than the so called 500 calories or not spending enough cals with workout/cardio regime (I say this because of the belly complaint).

On the other hand after 1 year of gains (20 pounds in 6 months), you get a lot closer than you were to your ideal max, at which point gains start slowying down some.

Here you have to pick up on strategies, change the workouts, start doing some strength training when you hit 5's (many of us do).

There will be others here with more concise help, but so far I hope I have touched on some issues.

You'd probably get some help from reading the "pimp my hst"
e-book, if you can't dowload it, e-mail me at faustos@aspenpharma.com, I'll send to yah
wink.gif
.
 
If you haven't increased your maxes much in 6 months and you are still eating enough to gain (although it doesn't sound like you are) then you have a problem with your training. Please post your routine, body weight and daily calories consumed so we can all make more informed suggestions.
 
ONE WAY , would be to use a simplify and win approach, for example - deads , bench , rows and military press (a combo I've used to great success ) - others may feel naked without squats and/or prefer dips to bench , pullups to rows - whatever ... the point being that a severely abbreviated exersize selection DOES result in some wicked gains ON those exersizes , so if those said movements are chosen for utmost "bangforbuck" and the simplify and win is kept simple (you'd be suprised how many try to complicate this) @ say 4 , MAYBE 5 - GREAT compounds , much gains can be achieved.

Some form of strength dedicated training ( for example a Kortes 3x3 - I'd modify it to include some overhead pressing- and it would STILL be a great abbreviated routine) will for sure bust through some PB's - even a 5x5 (which we used to consider a "bulking" routine , back when that third catagory existed - now it's all either strength or hypertrophy LOL!) would be a viable option . Theres any number of ways to address the stalled strength gains - I would tend towards abbreviated exersize selection and hammer the frequency ( no A/B stuff - hit 4 good movements 3x/wk - and that includes deads unless your numbers are higher than your comments would indicate.

Usually when a lifter gains like crazy then stalls so (relatively) quickly - it's because he started "cluttering" and gettin' all complicated like ... when he was at a point where simplicity and hammering basic compounds are really the most productive approach he/she could be using. This period of time lasts for several years , yet our excitement wanes and we search for "more flashy" tweaks and complications that may stimulate our minds but are inferior for building the foundation . Not saying this is your case - just that it sounds like it could be ...

Also - that 500 over maintainance ; was that over CURRENT or original maintanance?
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Fausto, thanks for the help. Just downloaded the "Pimp my HST" ebook.. This is advanced stuff..

Lol, Russ, I think you have a point about "simplify and win". Here's my current routine:

Weighted Chins
Weighted Dips
Bench
Military Press
Shrugs
Seated Row
Upright Row
Pulldowns
Leg curls

I often add squats, flyes etc depending on how tired I feel after the other exercises. I tend to look at time as the limit instead of the number of exercises. My workouts last about 45-60 minutes, 3x / week, no am/pm split, no A/B. Standard HST cycle, from 15's to 5's, with 5's extended (no negatives).


Russ, when doing 4-5 compounds, how long should my workout be, roughly? At 1 hour, I'm already getting teased at the gym about how quick my workouts are!
biggrin.gif


The 500 calories is over current.. But for a few months now my daily activities keep me on my feet most of the day.
 
If you are not gaining weight on that amount of food, then what you think is your maintenance is not your maintenance. If you are maintaining your weight on what you eat now, then that would mean you are eating maintenance. It is strange that you would have no weight gain but have gained a noticeable belly...

But not increasing strength is a problem, as Lol and Russ have pointed out. I'm troubled that deadlifts and squats are not an integral part of your routine. It's strange for me to say this, but you have too much back work. You don't need chins, rows and pulldowns all in the same workout. Do fewer exercises but more sets.

Deadlift
Row
Bench
Military Press

There you go, great workout. Alternate your deads with squats if you want, rows with chins, bench with dips and military press with upright rows.

Anyway, back to the strength problem... are you sure you are really pushing yourself when you find your maxes? If you have gained belly fat, have been lifting consistently, then you should increase your strength as well, unless you aren't really pushing yourself very hard when you max out.
 
Totentanz, I might be eating the wrong kinds of food.
I have gained a little fat around the ab area, but it looks to be more of a "distended gut" problem. I think I might be eating too much of "bulky" food, not enough calories. Since I'm also avoiding wheat, I've been using mostly rice, yams, etc for carbs.

I feel somewhat stupid, but it's only now that I tried googling for more energy-dense foods (raisins, oils etc). And to think that 2 spoonfuls of oil could replace a cup of carbs...
 
Totentanz, Russ: I'll take your advice on the abbreviated workout. If I go for a routine with just deadlift
row, bench and military press, for example, what's the optimal frequency? Is 3x/week still OK?
 
<div>
(onemoreset @ Nov. 12 2007,13:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, thanks for the help.  Just downloaded the &quot;Pimp my HST&quot; ebook..  This is advanced stuff..

Lol, Russ, I think you have a point about &quot;simplify and win&quot;. Here's my current routine:

Weighted Chins
Weighted Dips
Bench
Military Press
Shrugs
Seated Row
Upright Row
Pulldowns
Leg curls

I often add squats, flyes etc depending on how tired I feel after the other exercises. I tend to look at time as the limit instead of the number of exercises. My workouts last about 45-60 minutes, 3x / week, no am/pm split, no A/B.  Standard HST cycle, from 15's to 5's, with 5's extended (no negatives).


Russ, when doing 4-5 compounds, how long should my workout be, roughly?  At 1 hour, I'm already getting teased at the gym about how quick my workouts are!
biggrin.gif


The 500 calories is over current.. But for a few months now my daily activities keep me on my feet most of the day.</div>
Weighted Chins
Weighted Dips
Bench
Military Press
Shrugs
Seated Row
Upright Row
Pulldowns
Leg curls

OK , you've got chins , pulldowns , seated row , yet no deads , no BB rows ( the most basic bread and butter back movements IMHO) - you're pissing away precious CNS resources on several low return (and redundant ) moves! Keep the chins , substitute the seated rows with a BB row , substitute pulldowns (you're already set from the chins) with deadlift(which also eliminate the need for shrugs) - MUCH, MUCH more condusive to building mass and strength. Forget that you've even HEARD of leg curls - they are satans way of keeping you weak and full of the ghey! Drop them completely and squat/deadlift! I like upright rows but question wether they are good investment for you YET, also dips+bench maybe optimal at some point but IMHO you will get much farther , faster to pick one or the other for the immediate future . Lets see what that would leave us with so far-


Bench
military
chins
BB rows
deads
squats


Just like that would be a much improved movement selection , you could try this - and I promise that you will find this to be much more effective.

There have been times that a 4 movement &quot;simplify and win&quot;/abbreviated routine has taken me as little as 20 minutes and times its taken an hour - If the guys teasing you for less than an hour workouts are PLers than shrug it off - your goals and almost everything you do is going to be different , if they are BBers I'll bet they're doing a lot of yakking , a lot of hottie scoping , and other various other symptoms of general unfocus .


deadlifts , squats , bench , bb row and military - these are the foundation movements , if ALL you did was these for the next 2 years (and eat) you would be further ahead than the rest of the playing feild. A routine without at least 3 or 4 of these (if not all) is like skipping on pouring a foundation so that you can spend all your time and resources on an expensive roofing - it's a doomed proposition!
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<div>
(onemoreset @ Nov. 12 2007,14:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Totentanz, Russ: I'll take your advice on the abbreviated workout. If I go for a routine with just deadlift
row, bench and military press, for example, what's the optimal frequency? Is 3x/week still OK?</div>
Absolutely! you've still got a few cycles in you before deads really NEED to be alternated w/o to w/o with squats and then eventually reduced to 1x/wk .

With bench , row , military and dead for exersize selections you really cant go wrong. I've done (and will again) that exact exersize selection and had fantastic results - it would be better to do a cycle of this alternated with a &quot;more complicated&quot; cycle to maintain motivation throughout the year than to do &quot;cluttered routines&quot; one after the other - the guy making the biggest snow ball he can will have a bigger snowball than the guy trying to make the biggest snowball and a pot of coffee at the same time - to get big and strong concentrate on big and strong, LATER you can refine / tweak your basic foundation once its built. Good luck , it sounds like you are open to suggestions and will redirect your focus on to a narrower but more productive routine.
smile.gif




                       Just for fun if you get a chance after 5's and right before an SD , try this for a week(first find CURRENT 1RMS) if 90%1rm is causing failure , (it shouldn't - take as long as you need between each triple) drop down to (roughly)87%1rm and continue:

Monday
bench 3x3@90%1rm
military 3x3@90%1rm
Tuesday
deadlift 3x3@ 90%1rm
BB row 3x3 @ 90%1rm
weds off
thursday
bench 3x3@90%1rm
military 3x3@90%1rm
friday
deadlift 3x3@ 90%1rm
BB row 3x3 @ 90%1rm


                    If you do you will &quot;get&quot; it in a way that words cant convey as well , and you only did 4 exersizes , 18 TOTAL REPS A WORKOUT, a weekly volume total of just 72 reps- while I wouldnt recommend this for anything more than a week for a BBer type - it does get the point across that simple is NOT a bad thing.
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Thanks for the in-depth analysis Russ! Will give all this a try, and post back when results are in.

colby: No, I didn't take milk with the powders. But you're right, milk does affect me in the same way.
 
onemoreset

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, thanks for the help. Just downloaded the &quot;Pimp my HST&quot; ebook.. This is advanced stuff..</div>

No problem mate, I always thought of the pimp book as a good book to have because of eth advanced techniques in it, however I am with Russ all the way and something I had not realized was that you were wasting valuable gymn training time with non-value adding exercises (Maybe I'm just beeing too politically correct).

The pimped approach really works when you stuck and not getting anywhere, and by that I mean one of the approaches...but of course that is when you have already tried the simplified approach and are still not getting anywhere...which is very rare unless you really have &quot;lived&quot; in the gym for many years.
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The less is more or simplify and win approach is really the best way to go, it took me a long while to realize this but seriously its all worth it!

Russ's approach of 90% 3 x 3 is an excellnet approach to strength training that should produce some good gains, I'm going to give it a bash myself after the 5's (thanks Russ old mate
cool.gif
).

Cheers
 
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