Help with Shoulders

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Sun-Tzu, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. Sun-Tzu

    Sun-Tzu New Member

    For my last 3 cycles I've been doing DB military Press, Shrugs, and Bench for working the shoulders, but I noticed my front and side raises are really weak and would like to strengthen them as well as put on some size. Should I just add front and side raises to my workout or is what I'm doing now enough for shoulders?
     
  2. Jake

    Jake New Member

    Unless you're doing high-incline (>=45 degrees) bench, you're not really hitting your shoulders as much as you may think. I'd leave the bench at low(15-20 degrees) incline and use that to focus on the chest. In any event, you might try doing Arnolds instead of militaries. Also, are you doing any rotator cuff exercises (DB external rotations, abductions, Cuban presses, L-laterals)? You might want to add some or all of these in, HST-style. First, they'll help with strengthening your cuffs (always a good thing, IMO), and, you'd be surprised how much these babies add to visibly bulking your shoulders, even though they hit muscles that are pretty much invisible!
     
  3. Sun-Tzu

    Sun-Tzu New Member

    I do it at 15 degrees. I know it doesn't hit shoulders that much, but it does hit somewhat. I was just wanted to tell you about everything I do for shoulders. I tried doing cubans but I'm not as strong on the raise so I felt like I was slowing me down with the press if I lowered the weight to do them. Thanks for the response.
     
  4. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    1 and 1/2 front and side raises for 2 sets will fix the problem. After 2 cycles that and sufficient calories and protein.

    This movement is basic movement of a front or side raise however you do one full rep then half a rep.

    Do these with dumbells and do them with each arm seperatly.

    While the holding the non working arm contracted.

    For example for side raises take dumbells in both hands raise to shoulder level and parallel to floor now. Start with one side of your shoulders say your right side and bang out 10 and 1/2 reps this way. The whol time your left arm is still holding the dumbell at shoulder height.

    This puts lots of tension on muscle and they will grow at least and inch...with sufficient food.
     
  5. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Sun-tzu

    My recipe works for me, superset this:

    Military press + lateral raises + bent over raises. 1 set each!

    Front raises are a waste of time IMO, DB raises off a bench must be 60 degrees or more! [​IMG] To get you somewhere.

    Another way to do it, is to do mil press on one day and your iso's in another, I have developed a nice set of delts so far! [​IMG]
     
  6. robefc

    robefc New Member

    I think it depends on what your aim is.

    I reckon presses are better for overall delt development and def front delt than raises, I do upright rows (wide grip, ltd range of motion) for side, rely on pulling movements for rear laterals.

    I would consider adding cable side and rear laterals as a stretch point movement but not as the main movement, I wouldn't bother with front raises.

    However, if your objective is to increase your strength at front and side raises then I would have thought the best way to do that is by doing front and side raises! Do you really care though or are you more concerned with growth?
     
  7. Sun-Tzu

    Sun-Tzu New Member

    I want my shoulders to get larger mainly, but I also noticed they are a lot weaker in comparison to everything else. It just looks like I'm going to have to add a few exercises superset style because the Military press isn't doing it by itself.

    I was thinking do cubans and then side raises. I'll switch up my BB Bent Over Row with DB's as well. This should take care of the problem.

    Thanks for the advice.

    Why do you think front raises are worthless? What's better to do in comparison?
     
  8. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Sun

    'Cause that muscle gets hit so many with other exercises, it is just a repetition of the same and a good bench would hit the same muscle a lot better.

    Also you cannot use much load with it, obviously the same applies to lat and bent over raises, but in their case the muscles involved do not get hit hardly as much with other exercises, with exception of the rear delts with bent over rows and other heavy rows.

    If you want size you have to get eventually heavy with the military press and the benches/rows/chins/dips, they all hit the shoulder area somewhat.
     
  9. Sun-Tzu

    Sun-Tzu New Member

    So it's not abnormal from my side raise to be weaker then my press. Like I can press twice as much as I can side raise with db's.
     
  10. abarlament

    abarlament New Member

    Nah, that's how I am too, and most others I'm sure.
     
  11. Lance

    Lance New Member

    I think ur best bet for making ur shoulders bigger and stronger would be to concentrate on your pressing movement. During a bulk add another set to your shoulder press throughout the cycle, or a little more frequency, or just start with heavier weights from the getgo and stay into ur heaviest ranges for a while.

    I think laterals should be used for metabolic work if anything. They're a peak contraction exercise.
     
  12. liegelord

    liegelord New Member

    i agree, stick with the presses. When you hit your 5RM keep adding weight and do push presses. When you max those, then do push or power presses to do neg's.
     
  13. Lance

    Lance New Member

    yeah i do clean and press b/c of the weight increase, same concept as push press just not until after you've cleaned it to your chest ; )
     
  14. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Sun-tzu san

    You will never be able to convert one into the other, side raises are strict isolation exercises and if you can lift half (side raises) of what you can lift as a press movement you are one hell of a strong guy! Specially without cheating at all!

    So...be cool and preservere...keep pressing, tip...when you get to negatives if you are doing military's standing, use a bench and incline to 60 or more degrees then press the hell out!

    One other thing is to do overhead presses and therefore reduce some of your ROM.
     
  15. Sun-Tzu

    Sun-Tzu New Member

    Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll be going heavy on the press.
     

Share This Page