HIT stunted my development for years!

tjframe

New Member
Just wanted to throw this out there, its a long post, but perhaps a few people can relate to my own story.  And hopefully someone young guy out there wont make the  same mistakes I did!

As a teenager in the late 80's when I first got into lifting, I took an immediate liking to Mike Mentzer's physique and his rational approach to lifting methodology.  Sure everyone loved Arnold, but Mentzer just looked so damn rugged and bad-ass.  The uber-mesomorph of his time.  Reading about Arthur Jones, and the Colorado Experiment, and HIT, Darden etc.  I guess  I sort of got sucked into the whole "cult of personality" surrounding Mentzer. He just came across so logical and erudite. Everything he said made perfect sense. How could any rational person train any other way!? Mentzer and Jones said that all the successful champs who trained in the traditional style - split routines, high volume, not going to failure - became huge DESPITE their training, not because of it.

So I began to train in HIT fashion. Every workout was a grueling, morbid test of will. I would start having anxiety about training legs the day before, because I knew how miserable the experience would be.  Torture was the name of the game.  Then I would rest that body part for 7 or more days. When it came to diet, again Menzter dictated my choices -  Lots of protein was a waste. So I kept my calories moderate and added just a can of tuna a day. Anything more would just be overkill, right?

So did I grow? yes?  For a while.  Hell, I was a young mesomorph who was not afraid of pain and misery and going to failure.  Of course I saw results at first, but of course anyone would just starting out. But those initial results just clouded my judgement even more.

And as the years went on progress slowed down and my motivation waned. I chalked it up to hitting my natural limits.  I played around with the sauce, again not eating very much and training HIT. I hardly changed at all.  Since I was juiced and not growing that certainly meant I must have reached my genetic potential!  Everyone always said I had such great genetics, so why wasn't I getting huge!? Sure I was big.. but that massive thickness and size I wanted always eluded me. Turning back to Mentzer and Jones for answers,  I saw pictures of Mentzer's triceps and read that perhaps I didn't have sufficiently long and perfect muscle bellies for giant arms. I guess I would have to settle for 18 inch arms?  Ugh.. man my mind was so trapped in all that crap I had talked myself out of the idea of ever accomplishing my goals right from the start!

Well.. after many years of on-again, off-again sporadic training, I happened to get back into serious lifting. (Once bit by the iron bug, it never leaves ya!)  But this time everything was different. I started to re-examine and re-evaluate every bit of HIT dogma I had learned over the years.  

To my great fortune, I happened across a post about HST in another forum and came here to check it out.  I can truly say that coming here was the best thing that ever happened to my training!  Right off the bat, HST made sense to me and seemed logical enough. But having been burned by all those years of HIT, more "logical" training made me wary nonetheless. But I decided to give it a try.  And this time I added lots and lots of calories and about 300 grams of protein a day.

Lo and behold, my size and strength grew overnight.   After such slow progress all those years HST literally seemed too good to be true.  For the first time in years, I looked forward to training! Eventually I tinkered with HST  a bit and have settled on my own system that works fantastically for me.  I'm now 38.  But I'm bigger and stronger than I ever was at 25 and juicing.

As for my less than perfect tricep bellies? My arms are now 2 inches larger. Perhaps they weren't so bad after all.  Too bad I had convinced myself otherwise all those years ago.

Im 5'9 and 270lbs and my next goal is to diet down and truly get RIPPED for the first time in my life. After this next SD I'm going to start a 22 week diet.  If I can get the strongest and largest ever at this age, then why cant I get the leanest? I wasted too much of my life rationalizing myself out of my bodybuilding goals and dreams.  As much as I WANTED to believe in HIT, the reality is now I can look back and honesty say I wish I had never heard of it.  I can only wonder how I'd look like by now.

- TJ
 
TJ: I relate mate! I'll send you my t-shirt! : D (although I don't think it'll fit you. You are heoooge!)

Unlike you, I packed it in after HIT... for nearly 20 years(!!) as I could see myself getting nowhere fast. But, as you say, the lifting bug never really leaves you and about 5 months ago I chanced upon HST too.

Well, it's never worth looking back at what you might have done if only you'd known earlier. Let's be glad we found it when we did. I'm 40 now, making great progress and more to the point I am really enjoying it this time around more than ever. That means I'm much more likely to stick at it.

At least there are some great photos in Dr. Darden's books so they weren't for nothing.
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I owe alot to HST. I too almost gave up on training, but around my 30th birthday I stumbled upon HST's website. I studied and learned for weeks and went into it skeptical, but optimistic. I'm sure glad that I followed through. The biggest lessons HST has taught me is the importance of frequency,utilizing compound movements (squat, DL, bench, row), and how training to failure is not optimal. With this knowledge in my hands, I can now map out my own programs, knowing that results will come.

Combine HST with the surge in popularity of the basic strength programs of Rippetoe and Waterbury (which utilize higher frequency as well), we have a bodybuilding revolution on our hands. It's exciting to see people reacing goals they thought were impossible.
 
"I guess I would have to settle for 18 inch arms?"

Unless you're 6'8, 18 inch arms arms are quite the accomplishment. 18 inch arms on a 5'9 frame is HUGE.
 
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(liegelord @ Mar. 19 2006,14:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;I guess I would have to settle for 18 inch arms?&quot;

Unless you're 6'8, 18 inch arms arms are quite the accomplishment.  18 inch arms on a 5'9 frame is HUGE.</div>
Not really if you are a large framed mesomorph and have wide shoulders.

Plus I guess if you are at 5 percent bodyfat, an 18 inch arm could look fantastic.  I doubt I'll ever be that low becuase I don't plan to compete.  
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Notice how many of the HIT boards are totally opposed to the HST method? ... Yet at the same time, many of the HIT proponents started to incorporate HST concepts (e.g. Not to failure training days, periodic training breaks, etc) since HST has been introduced?

I practiced the HIT method for many years - actually did alright with it, but I always got to the same sticking point after training for any length of time.  It certainly worked better for me than the moderate-to-high volume workouts that one frequently reads about.

I learnt everything I could about HIT to further my progress - I have volumes of material, much of it largely unpublished research from Arthur Jones (some of which I still consider valuable.)

The thing about HST that made the most sense is that it started to correlate to some of my own experiences.  

For example, better &quot;progress&quot; is made after a lay off, even when starting with lighter weights.  If one takes the HIT dogma literally, how is this possible?

Sure, HST doesn't quite have the same masochistic appeal, but in the end of the day, it's the results that matter!  
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I think the biggest irony of all regarding HIT is the fact that Arthur Jones himself (by his own admission) never trained for more than a couple of months in a row.  He would frequently be out of the country on business and then would return many many pounds lighter, only to start up his usual routine again.

Had he trained for any continuous length of time, I wonder how this might have changed his opinions on the topic... He certainly wasn't stupid (arrogant yes, stupid no.)
 
Tjframe

It is nice to hear that someone else broke the curse!

Luckily I never got into any specific methodology, but picked on a lot of different sources, and on and off I went, never really getting anywhere!

By chance I found HST as it was starting off, I can proudly say I am in thebest shape of my life and am soon turning 40.

Since giving up smoiking and really re-scheduling my life and goals I have started to grow fairly well, the wife is starting to say: don't you think you should stop growing your legs they look thick enough to me!

He...he...he...we were talking about betting me some new trousers as many of th eprevious pairs do not fit any longuer, two of my favourite Levi-501's make me feel like a stuffed sausage so...I guess my 16 year old is gonna get lucky.

Keep going mate, I also believe that I can attain 17&quot; on a 5'6&quot; frame, already my 15.5&quot; guns look pretty good, but just a little more, thenI'll be happy!
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I got into Arthur Jones' and Ellington Darden's HIT when I was 16, after training for a year or so with more &quot;conventional&quot; methods.
I believed in it with all my heart and gave it all I could for nearly two years, but Darden's HIT never really worked for me. After the first few months or so, my progress became extremely slow or I was not making any progress at all.

Then, a few months before being recruited by the army, I gave it all up and never resumed my training, not untill last summer - 12 years later! now that's what I call SD...

For the first two months I made great gains (I actually gained back what I've lost during this 12 years break), I  trained using HIT or AB split, training each body-part twice a week (With Darden's HIT I always trained 3 times a week and always hit the whole body in every workout! Darden (or probably Jones) figured out this one and deserves a credit for that).

Then I reached plateau again. Since then I've been training for about six months with minor progress.
Reading about HST suddenly everything made perfect sense to me.
I'm aproaching the end of the 10's now and I'm giving my first cycle all I can.

I think apart from going to failure all the time, HIT differs from HST by relating to &quot;percieved effort&quot; rather than &quot;absolute load&quot;.

According to Bryan and HST the &quot;absolute load&quot; is what really counts, and must exceed the load to which the muscles got conditioned.
As I said it makes perfect sense, and now I understand why I wasn't making gains with HIT (using low weights as my muscles were exhausted halfway through each workout, and not icreasing the load from one workout to the next).
 
Good to hear other people's similar stories.  In a strange way this comparison I put together sort of deals a final blow to the HIT methodology when it comes to gaining size.

Take a look at HIT's most famous proponent, Mike himself.  On the left he is 20 years old and at that age still lifted in the traditional way. On the right is the mature, post-HIT Mentzer. In my opinion he looks barely 15 pounds heavier.  Yes he is leaner, but not much bigger.  So essentially we have a guy who gained 95 percent of his size using volume training. Hmm.... He kills his own case.
 
Wowsers...Great post and I am glad that you are a proponent of HST. Keep up the great work and I look forward to your results!
 
I also did HIT some years ago. but my friend (zack on this forum) persuaded me to train in HST style.
which I dont regret.

well im 6 3&quot; and I still dont got big arms.. hehe
around 15-16&quot;
thats not good
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Got to work on that :P


but I like the principle of HST it makes so much sense.
Compare it to anything in life.
Sunbathing -&gt; better to do a short time several days a week, instead of laying for hours once a week and get BURNED(failure) which takes days/weeks to repair.
studying -&gt; better to study 20-30 minutes a day than study for hours one day a week

the list can go on and on!
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I simply love HST
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Geez, what is this, the 'Old Fart' thread?!? Guess I may as well make my first post to the board be about my experiences over the years too.

I turn 40 in less than 2 weeks. I'm 5'11&quot; and 200 lbs, maybe 12% bodyfat. Back when I first started working out as a senior in high school I was 5'11&quot; 150 lbs. I did my own thing for maybe a year, and then when I came across some Nautilus books at my local library and the 1 set to failure method.... it all just seemed to make sense to me. I even joined a Nautilus gym through a radio promotion, $99/yr. 'Newbie Gains' got me up to 180 lbs, and then I stagnated for YEARS. I still think doing a 1 set to failure (or close) full body workout is a good way to maintain what you have, but as I said, I got to 180 lbs and then stopped. Was pretty frustrating to say the least. I never wanted to look like a steroid-taking bodybuilder, but I wanted to be bigger than I was.

Having a mentor sure would have been nice, but I didn't have an older brother, and in my circle of friends I was always the one who would be first to try something new, so I never really knew anyone who I could seek advice from.

I tried some other approaches, but I was never a guy who would do 20 sets per bodypart or anything like that. I started taking creatine, working my legs heavier, adding more protein to my diet, and I eventually got my weight into the low/mid 190's and now 200 lbs. I'm actually down from 212 lbs as I'm on a cut right now. I'm a carboholic, and eating breads, pasta, etc is almost a freaking hobby with me. If I go cold turkey and cut them out I can drop some weight pretty quickly, and that's what I've done here in the last 6 weeks.

I was getting fed up with my current gym, so in late 2004 I bought some equipment and started working out at home. I did Max-OT for almost a year, and I've just completed my 2nd cycle of HST and am 'off' from lifting this week.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I start back up. I definitely felt like I gained strength on Max-OT, but my problem with it was that I didn't like using the 'loose' form they suggest using. I was getting quite a few aches and pains in various parts of my body. I was also feeling somewhat burned out/overtrained towards the end of the year that I did it. That's one of the reasons I switched to HST.

Whether my next cycle is HST or Max-OT, I've already decided that I'm going to use a stricter form, slower cadence, and lower the amount of weight I'm lifting. At the moment, I'm leaning towards another HST cycle, with 4 and 8 rep sets.
 
I just started HST Saturday. I've never really quit lifting since I was 14 and I'm 36 now. But where I've messed up is that I had basically stuck with the same, outdated routines that I had gotten from my high school coaches, and never really making any progress, and pretty much neglecting my back and legs. While I pretty much lifted something every week, i wasn't as religious with my cardio, and would maybe get about 10lbs overweight. My blood pressure was getting kind of high about a year ago so I stepped up the cardio and started a basic 3 day split with heavy weights and gotten my blood pressure and the extra flab off. But high weight/low reps has never really helped me. I've always gotten real strong without much size. I'm now 5'7 about 155-160 now and on most lifts I can easily do several reps of 100+ lbs more than my bodyweight, but I don't look like it. It just didn't make sense to me to keep beating myself up with heavy weights like most routines claim without seeing much gaines but maybe an extra rep some months. Just seems like something is going to give when you work out heavy all the time and end up getting injured. I broke some ribs (not weightlifting related) a few weeks back and that got me thinking how lucky I've been never getting injured working out and how much I like to lift and found this site looking for higher rep/lighter weight routines since I can't lift heavy for awhile and HST makes sense and answers alot of questions I had about reaching natural limits. I'm going to follow it to a T this first time, going down to the 5 reps. Depending on my gains, the next time i might try something like, 15, 12, 10 or 15, 10, 8 since I'm tired of heavy lifting for years.
 
Wow, if yins are in the best shape of your life in the late 30's and 40's... then if I keep it up for upcoming years, I am going to be in amazing shape by that age!
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Great job TJ
 
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(Enigma66 @ Mar. 21 2006,04:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Geez, what is this, the 'Old Fart' thread?!?</div>
Yeah, I am glad that men like you and other 30 year olds (I'm 34 btw) are still working out and embrace the fitness lifestyle.
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