Hit the wall?

B

bobpit

New Member
I have done 22 workouts in the last 7 weeks of HST. I did some ZigZag. I did 2 sets for 15s, 2 sets for 10s and 3 sets for 5s. I could see strength to go up on most exercises. I tried to keep the wo less than an hour.

Today I did my last day of 5s (5RMs). This is the first day that I felt drained. Because of the high intensity (high weights), I had to rest more. I spent 12-15 minutes at DL alone. I did 5x130, 4x130, 3x130 kgr. My all-time 5RM at DL is about 135 kgr. (So I am at the top of my strength, but did not manage to go higher here).

After the dips (pecs were very warm), I went to the peck-deck machine (I added peck deck to emphasize the pecs). I tried to warm up with a managable load. I think I pulled a muscle there.

By the time I went to biceps/triceps, I could lift much less than 3 workouts ago. Obviously I was drained. This wo lasted 1 hour and 17 minutes.
I had a pre-wo shake. I had another 10-15 grams of carbos inside the workout. And I had 2 post-wo drinks.

I went home and it was the first time in 2 months I felt so tired.

The previous wo was 4 days ago (I got a really good rest). And I had lots of sleep the last 24 hours.

I am thinking to cut back to 2 sets, in order to keep on this HST routine.

One more detail. I added peck-deck only when I went to the 5s, because I was not satisfied with my results with chest. The chest really went up. But maybe I was not prepared correctly (did not do the 15s). But according to "Pimp HST", you add isos as you progress to 10s and 5s.

Thanks guys
 
it depends on your goals, i think. if your goals are strength, cutting down sets is a viable option, as the lighter volume should enable strength gains, but if you're training for hypertrophy, despite moving less loads because of accumulating fatigue, it's quite likely you'll still have muscular growth.
 
I believe that you're advanced enough to require specialty progression, I believe is called "dual factor periodization"? Linear is only for early stages, and I'd recommend (since you want to continue) what you're planning but also drop the weight a bit, and come up again, and attempt to bypass your present sticking points.
You sound like you've overreached and will soon be overtrained if you don't cut back with a deload like this. (not SD) Intentional overreaching has some great merits and accolades, not to mention staying in the cycle longer.
Here's a great read:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....al+fact
Aha! I found what I was REALLY looking for:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html
Absolutely great article if I remember correctly.
I'm sure the guys will give more details.
 
12-15 minutes for 12 reps. Look up Max-Stim and M-time. Simply put, M-time is a rest period between each rep to manage fatigue and perhaps cut down on the total time needed to complete one workout and to allow a greater load than otherwise. As such, I think it's perfect for load progression with heavy weights.
 
Bob

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am thinking to cut back to 2 sets, in order to keep on this HST routine. </div>

This is one of the things I'd do, the other would be to re-look at the isos, are they really necessary? Could I perhaps do just one set instead.

My best and longest cycles had only 4 - 5 exercises alternated:

Squat/Bench/Chinups/Military Press
Deadlifts/Dips/Rows/Lateral raises and Bent over raises

At most I added One set inclined curls + French curls or Pushdowns.

One thing about the peck deck, some people call it peck-wreck for a reason, it can easily hurt you, drop the weight on the stack and use it as a superset with your dips or bench, I did this and my chest did get better.

Have you looked at your nutrition, are you eating enough, maybe you need to re-calculate, your requirements may have just changed since you last looked?
wink.gif
 
quadancer

I already thought of stepping back a couple of workouts and advancing again, in order to increase my RMs. I think this is what you mean.
<div>
(quadancer @ May 16 2007,20:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I believe that http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....al+fact
Aha! I found what I was REALLY looking for:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html
</div>
I am aware of this article. Actually I was wondering how this applies to HST. I guess the principle of very frequent training, training even if I am sore etc. I am sorry. After reading it, I don't get any new idea on HST and my situation.

I will answer to all the other posts as soon as I wake up. I really need to go to sleep now.

Thank you guys.
 
I go mostly for size (without the fat). Strength is secondary but also very important to me.

I had another idea. Why not back up for 2 workouts, but doing 10s? Like do the 4th and 5th wo of 10s? Then go again for 6th day of 5s, the current 5RMs? These variations are supposed to be good, according to &quot;other&quot; systems.

<div>
(Fausto @ May 17 2007,04:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the isos, are they really necessary? Could I perhaps do just one set instead.</div>

I found out that I need isos to increase my arms. Big compound lifts did nothing to their size, for over a year.

<div>
(Fausto @ May 17 2007,04:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
One thing about the peck deck, some people call it peck-wreck for a reason, it can easily hurt you</div>
From what I understand, it strains the muscle in the stretched position. This is why it is supposed to be effective. I added peck-deck when I went into the 5s and I saw big improvement in the chest size.

<div>
(Fausto @ May 17 2007,04:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Have you looked at your nutrition, are you eating enough, maybe you need to re-calculate, your requirements may have just changed since you last looked?
wink.gif
</div>
Ah! I am supposed to get about 150 gr of carbos pre+post wo. But a couple of years ago (with different routine) I noticed I was getting fat quickly like this. So now I get about 100 gr carbos pre+post. This is 400 Kcal. This last wo was estimated (by my pulse meter) to have burned 795 Kcals!! If this is right, then I need to increase the carbs.

PS: The pulse meter registered a max HR of 187!!! on that wo. My theoretical MaxHR is only 179. I must have pushed myself very hard.
 
Bob, I feel ya on the carbs to fat thing. I've had to cut down the carbs a bit in my workouts too, since age is working it's evil spell on me.
You could switch to tens, but I'd think that in the 5's, the goal here is still a total workload over load. Once past the first two weeks of 5's, you are, in a way, OFF the HST cycle and ON a strength cycle, to bump things up for the next cycle.
So there's no confusion to it, really, inasmuch as doing a reset with the same rep scheme; it's sort of a, well, no, it IS a deload; backing up a couple workouts or three and coming back up again, giving the body a break. It's worked for me, anyway. But I was only able to back up once and pass my former stopping point, unlike several times as referred to in the article.
 
The muscle I thought I pulled is ok, no problem. But I got sick. I think my body rebelled against me. And I was doing so good. I hope to be able to continue this cycle soon.
 
This happened to me too. I went in for my 5rm day and couldn't even do one rep of the first exercise. I dropped down to the weight from my previous workout and could only manage 3. My joints hurt like hell just picking the dumbells off the rack.
I think my problem may be this cycle I have been working too close to my maxes all along in my hurry to get stronger.
I've skipped that workout so I've had 3.5 days rest. I'm going back to the beginning of 5s and starting much lower and taking 2 more weeks to try and ramp back up to a new 5rm.
 
Yes, either back off or do SD and try a new cycle.

I decided to do something in-between. My last 5RM wo was on 16th May. I went back to the gym yesterday (May 22th). I considered this 1 week a mini SD. Yesterday I did just 1 wo of 15s and I will go straight to 10s.

Pleasant surprise. My 15 RM for BB curls (strict form, back to the wall) and Tricep French extensions was 21 Kgr (last cycle). Yesterday I did 14-15 reps with 24 kgr, because I just forgot that I had to put lower weights. So my strength did go up. But maybe it also means that this 1 week was not enough of an SD.
 
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