HIT VS HST

need2eat

New Member
Anyone else read this:

HST vs HIT Discussion

Its definitely biased in favor of HIT.

Another interesting article

HIT Training, ineffective?

This dude rips HIT apart, I wonder what he thinks of HST?
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I think both are effective.

Personally, for my body HST or something using similar principals is more effective. But I did make good improvements in my body while using Max OT, which is very HIT oriented training.
 
HIT is great if you don't mind running the additional liklihood of injury and don't mind stagnating (although you could incorporate SD into HIT).
 
Most of those people sound like retards...

This quote was especially insightful:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
I have one simple question: Do you really want to spend that much time in the gym?

When you work out that often, believe me it starts to take over your life.

I tried something very similar a few years ago in my quest for the Holy Grail Routine. My &quot;battle plan&quot; for that day's workout, dominated my thoughts all day long.

What a waste. I have so many other things to do in my life besides workout.

Scott
</div>

Hmm... sounds like he doesn't want it much, does he? You know, it's weird that he's saying you be in the gym way too much with HST, seeing as how people always give us a hard time with HST because we aren't in the gym that much.
 
Haha 1 hour 3 times per week is hardly &quot;taking over your life&quot;. I spend 40 hours a week in a gym! I wouldn't say its affected my life outside the gym.

As far as I can see any infrequent program like HIT will only be effective and efficient if you use AAS, as a natural your hormones go down to normal in about 36-48 hours, as a natty you just need to hit the weights multiple times a week, its just a fact of life.
 
That discussion from Darden's website was ridiculous. Some guy posting at an HIT website, &quot;hey, what do you all think of HST?&quot; (He might as well be asking &quot;what do you all think of Islam?&quot; at a Christian website.) Then somebody quotes Bryan bashing HIT and everyone gets enraged and says Bryan is a retard, etc., etc. It is almost as stupid as some guy posting at the HST website, &quot;Hey, what do you all think of HIT?&quot; and then everyone chimes in and says HIT is evil, or stupid or both. It reminds me of religious arguments, where both sides are close-minded and nothing gets accomplished, and then insults start flying...
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Obviously the majority of people at Darden's website like HIT, and the majority of people here like HST.
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<div>
(Peak_Power @ Jan. 09 2007,20:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">as a natural your hormones go down to normal in about 36-48 hours,</div>
Much much sooner than that, your numbers are correct (or close enough) but the designation should be minutes not hours.
 
<div>
(need2eat @ Jan. 09 2007,11:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anyone else read this:

HST vs HIT Discussion

Its definitely biased in favor of HIT.</div>
Old thread and even Darden himself has come off the whole failure training idea.
 
I heard Drew Baye was planning to give Max-Stim a shot. Hear anything about what came of that?
 
<div>
(need2eat @ Jan. 09 2007,11:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Another interesting article

HIT Training, ineffective?

This dude rips HIT apart, I wonder what he thinks of HST?  
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</div>
Fred Hatfield, he never held back his &quot;admiration&quot; for Jones.
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<div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 09 2007,20:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I heard Drew Baye was planning to give Max-Stim a shot.  Hear anything about what came of that?</div>
Gained some sizable strength, quite quickly


From Drew's last email
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My own weights have gone up considerably in all exercises. I switched back to normal reps for a few workout for comparison, and was surprised how much more I was able to use..........................The only downfall is that it is slightly more time consuming, but the results are worth it.</div>

He is currently doing a Max-Stim vs Conventional trial with a set of twins. THey are 16 year old girls so the results won't prove a lot but so far the experimental (MS) twin is far surpassing the strength gains of the control.
 
I am going to give max stim a try aswell. I am about to finish my cycle. I didn't gain more than 5 pounds during the cycle though. I didn't sd before i started though.....
If i were to compare HIT and HST while bulking up....HIT for me was much better. For my fullbody workouts, i think i might have been overtraining. When i was bulking with HIT, i only did a full body every 5-6 days and then taekwondo everyday i wasn't lifting. Least i was seeing my 10rep maxes increase by 10-15 pounds each week.

My biggest concern is wtf(srry) i am going to due with all the fat I have gained. All the professional trainers and my friends are like, &quot;You will lose a lot of muscle if you due 750 calorie burns of aerobics.&quot;----that totally sets me up for failure and looking like a skinny fat person with muscle.

I think i will try BFFM even though i am pretty sure that is how i am eating ATM.
 
You're fairly young and new to lifting yeah? HIT may give some benefits in the short term (over say, 6 weeks), because you're using heavy weights from the start, but over the period of a year and more, growth and strength gains with HST will seriously outstrip HIT, especially since with lower risk of injury, joint wear etc, you can consistently work out for longer, use heavier weights for longer periods of time etc.

The prinicple of training to failure with regards to hypertrophy and strength gains is just bunk, its been conclusively proven. Its also been proven that the body does not need to fully &quot;recover&quot; before you work out again, so the prinicples of HIT are not based on science or physiology. HST is.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It reminds me of religious arguments, where both sides are close-minded and nothing gets accomplished, and then insults start flying... </div>

Reminds me of the documentary I am watching involving a court case involving Galileo versus the Catholic Church over the Heliocentric Solar System.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
If i were to compare HIT and HST while bulking up....HIT for me was much better. For my fullbody workouts, i think i might have been overtraining. When i was bulking with HIT, i only did a full body every 5-6 days and then taekwondo everyday i wasn't lifting. Least i was seeing my 10rep maxes increase by 10-15 pounds each week.</div>

You obviously found you were doing some things wrong during your first cycle. Strategic deconditioning is key and I find longer SD's to be the best. You need to eat right to get your results too. You are right about one thing, HIT is better for strength which is why SST was devised as a crossover between the two.
 
''I heard Drew Baye was planning to give Max-Stim a shot. Hear anything about what came of that? ''

''Gained some sizable strength, quite quickly''


Thats cool that the dude changed his views, I respect people who change thir views in the light of evidence, easier said than done for some peeps
 
<div>
(Peak_Power @ Jan. 10 2007,01:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The prinicple of training to failure with regards to hypertrophy and strength gains is just bunk, its been conclusively proven.

Its also been proven that the body does not need to fully &quot;recover&quot; before you work out again, so the prinicples of HIT are not based on science or physiology. HST is.</div>
I wouldn't say conclusively, it's still rather debated.

Some of the principles are founded in science, such as &quot;specificity&quot;, if you train to failure specifically you will get better at training to failure and hence if the loads are increasing as well then naturally you will also get stronger but, this is more of a strength/endurance adaptation.

Just be careful on how you interpret this and relay it to others, the &quot;body&quot; does need to recover, muscle tissue on the other hand can be reloaded quite soon or constantly. Since the whole body is involved in lifting the higher the stress on the whole body the longer the recovery times, therfore HST manages the training better by avoiding chronic failure training, using only the volume needed and progressive loading to allow higher frequency of training without having to use long recovery times before reloading.

Just in case no one has ever seen this (then obviously they aren't reading the FAQ, man are they missing out) let me quote something here that may help with this issue of HST vs HIT

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>Pre-existing Concepts that HST Refutes:

• A muscle must be fully recovered before you should train it again.
• You should not train a muscle that is sore (DOMS, not injury).
• You must never train a muscle on consecutive days. (i.e. train the same muscle everyday)
• The concept of &quot;Overtraining&quot; in general as it applies to bodybuilding.
• You must train with maximum &quot;intensity&quot; to elicit significant muscle growth.
• You should not use eccentric training on a &quot;frequent&quot; basis.
• You must change your exercise selection regularly in order to &quot;confuse the muscle&quot; into continued growth.
• You must hit a muscle at every angle in order to adequately train it.
• Muscle Fatigue is the primary indicator of having triggered the growth signal
• You must effectively isolate a muscle in order to train it effectively.
• You can train a muscle in such as way as to change its natural shape.

Pre-existing Methods and/or practices that HST Refutes:

• Training a muscle no more than once or twice per week.
• Training less frequently as your &quot;intensity&quot; increases.
• Adding weight only when you can complete a certain number of additional reps at that weight. (This is a fundamental difference!
• Training to failure every set and/or workout (If you don't how would you know if you can perform additional reps at that weight yet?)
• Forced reps
• Performing several &quot;obligatory&quot; exercises per body part per workout
• Performing multiple exhaustive sets per exercise
• Changing exercises to &quot;confuse&quot; the muscle.</span></div>
 
after reading a discussion on lyles site,i was thinking about guys who dont like to sd but would rather do a type of deload.

what if after 8wks instead of sding they did a one bodypart a wk split for say 4wks,i know that wouldnt decondition the muscles but it would give them some sort of recovery after the 5s and negs,
personaly i prefer to sd
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Yeah i see what you mean. I only did HIT for no more than 4 months. Pre-existing Concepts that HST Refutes:

• A muscle must be fully recovered before you should train it again.----better for strength gains
• You should not train a muscle that is sore (DOMS, not injury).
• You must never train a muscle on consecutive days. (i.e. train the same muscle everyday)----depends, you can do bench press and pushups on diff days but not bench and more bench.
• The concept of &quot;Overtraining&quot; in general as it applies to bodybuilding.
• You must train with maximum &quot;intensity&quot; to elicit significant muscle growth.---works
• You should not use eccentric training on a &quot;frequent&quot; basis.
• You must change your exercise selection regularly in order to &quot;confuse the muscle&quot; into continued growth.----so now muscles can think now?!
• You must hit a muscle at every angle in order to adequately train it.---lies
• Muscle Fatigue is the primary indicator of having triggered the growth signal-----yeah...could be overtraining or even muscle loss
• You must effectively isolate a muscle in order to train it effectively.----almost impossible to fully isolate one muscle group.
• You can train a muscle in such as way as to change its natural shape.----yeah....example-1/4 barbell curls

Pre-existing Methods and/or practices that HST Refutes:

• Training a muscle no more than once or twice per week.-----works
• Training less frequently as your &quot;intensity&quot; increases.-----depends
• Adding weight only when you can complete a certain number of additional reps at that weight. (This is a fundamental difference!----pretty much
• Training to failure every set and/or workout (If you don't how would you know if you can perform additional reps at that weight yet?)-----only if you give the muscle and cns enough recovery time.
• Forced reps---works for me
• Performing several &quot;obligatory&quot; exercises per body part per workout----what?
• Performing multiple exhaustive sets per exercise----um....wouldnt that be overkill?
• Changing exercises to &quot;confuse&quot; the muscle. ----dont beleive

I get much better gains when I follow these though.....right now i am jsut burned out...not really going anywhere. I am sure sleep is going to make a difference as i would have to go to bed at 10 to get 8 hours of sleep. which just isn't doable with school.
 
Better gains relative to what, Cova?

&quot;I didn't sd before i started though.....&quot;

By your own admission, you didn't even DO a proper HST cycle. You literally fumbled the ball on handoff.
 
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