HST Alteration - what you think?

W

wisslewj

New Member
Hi Guys,

I am looking for a new routine and have never tried anything like HST. I have always done the traditional splits. This looks promising! I have a question though about the routines.

Since fast twitch fibers are better trained under a heavy load with short reps and the opposette for the white fibers and somewhere in the middle for the middle fibers, I had an idea for an HST routine. Would it be effective to put all three fiber trainings together in one workout and hence fully work all 3 fibers? Like the following for example:

MWF:
Chest
Flat Bench 1x5 (Heavy weight)
Incline 2x10 (medium weight)
Flye 1x15 (lighter weight)

Legs
Squat 1x5
Squat 2x10
Leg Curl 1x15

Shoulders
BTN Press 1x5
Military Press 2x10
Lateral Raise 1x15

Back
DeadLifts 1x5
Pull-Ups 2x10
1 Arm rows 1x15

Biceps
Bar Curl 1x5
Seated Dumbbell Curls 2x10
Conc Curls 1x15

Triceps
Close-grip Press 1x5
Skull Crusher 2x10
Dip 1x15

What do ya think guys? It would fully hit all the fibers hence fully working all the muscle but I am not sure if it would lead to overtraining or not as its quite a big workout in some respects. I would really appreciate opinions as I love the idea of working all three fibers, the fast first with heavy since it fatigues first followed by middle weight for middle reps and finally light weight for more reps. It seems smart muscle wise but I am not sure if it works with HST.

Please let me know if I am crazy!
Thanks a heap.
Jeff
 
Hey Faz,

Thanks for the links. They are interesting. However, I still have this issue.

If you start with light weight and progress up you may end up with a 1 rep max of say 200. However, if you start with the 1 rep max, I guarantee you will do more then 200. Maybe 210.

My point is, since fast twitch fibers exhaust faster and moving more weight leads to more muscle, it seems far wiser to start with a heavy set and max out that set of 5 reps with a heavier weight. The other 2 fiber types, though recruited as well during the heavy lift, will still have plenty of energy left, whereas the red fibers will be almost fully exhausted.

If one then moves to medium weight and reps they would then focus more on the medium fibers and the slow ones as the red ones wouldnt need to be recruited, which works well as they would be used up anyway.

Finally, low weight and high reps would squeeze out the last bit of energy the slow twitch fibers hasnt yet used up.

It seems in this way that one could lift the maximum weight this way which I would think would thusly lead to maximum gains.

This sounds logical doesnt it? It isnt so much about "isolating" the fibers as much as it is about training the most efficient way to maximize all fiber growth.

I am just not sure if this methodology can be utalized in HST or if it would lead to an overtraining result as the load would be pretty high 3 days a week.

Does my logic make sense here guys?

Thanks again,
Jeff
 
When trying to grow muscle, it is worthless to try to adjust the program to "stimulate" or "isolate" any specific type of fiber. Recruitment patterns involved in lifting weights heavy enough to cause hypertrophy activate all fibers, both fast and slow.
 
Although yoursin an interesting set-up, you shoudl first try HST out before starting tweaks and trying to adjust the program to your type of thinking.

HST has been thouroughly thought out, tried and tested!

What might happen with your type of set-upis that CNS fatigue may end up setting in too soon.

Then again I have heard and tried teh opposite of what you suggest but found it better to stick tothe HST guidelines.

You'llsee what I mean if you just give the FAQ e-book a read!
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<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 16 2007,10:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Please let me know if I am crazy!</div>
You are crazy.

Have you read the HST article yet?
 
Sounds like POF (midrange, stretch &amp; contracted)  - but take it from me, trying to hit all three positions in a workout and three times a week will fry your CNS (40 reps per muscle group is tough)
However if you are set on implementing POF, why not try a single position on each of the training days MWF using the HST protocol (may be clustering to 20/24 reps) - then if this goes well; try two positions per workout (alternating all three)
You'd probably need to find your 5rm for all exercises and work back from this for you week one poundages (min 60-70% of 5rm) - we're concentrating on hypertrophy not strength gains per se.
Bearing this in mind - if I were you: I'd still give the vanilla HST workout a try for two cycles at least...
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You are crazy. Have you read the HST article yet? </div>

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Just love the honesty Tot!
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You know many of us have tweaked HST, but none I think ever tried to alter it as such, so you will end up getting some brutal honesty coming your way.

Hope you don't take it literally, that way you'll end up learning!
 
Heheh I'm sure he'll take the tongue-in-cheek brutality in the manner that Tot always means it.
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What's with all the newbie tweaking lately? Its been a while..

Used to be a lot of &quot;newbie advice needed&quot; from not understanding hst, but actually wanting to majorly tweak it before you've tried it, damn if that isn’t a bit presumptuous.
 
Hey Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I think I may just try the basic HST program for starters just to see if it works.

I do think some you may have misunderstood my point though. I am not suggesting that one can isolate the fibers. Rather, one can more efficiently squeeze every ounce of energy out of them (and hence lift a higher load) by starting with the heavy weigh and low reps and moving backward.

However, after having thought about it, it will be more of a strength and hypertrophy routine rather than just a hypertrophy routine. Since HST is for the latter, and that is what I want, I will try it and see how it works.

Also, DarkMaster, you are right about frying my CNS. I tried my workout yesterday. It was a GOOD workout. I was exhausted! But there is NO WAY I could do it MWF. M and R maybe would be ok but not MFW! I do think it is a good work out but as I said, its more of a mix rether then just the one.

SO thanks again guys. I do have some questions about HST program specifics, but I will ask the questions in a bew post since its a new topic.

Thanks again
Jeff

PS..TOT, Good to have conformation...I always knew I was nuts! And yes I did read everything first. ;)
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> think I may just try the basic HST program for starters just to see if it works.</div>

Ok...now you're starting to make sense!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">PS..TOT, Good to have conformation...I always knew I was nuts! And yes I did read everything first.</div>

I think many of us, Tot included can be included in that group
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, DarkMaster, you are right about frying my CNS. I tried my workout yesterday. It was a GOOD workout. I was exhausted! But there is NO WAY I could do it MWF.</div>

I am sure TDM and all of us knew you'd arrive at that conclusion alone, which you did, so it is a good thing...I just wish all the other newbies which are not so new cold read this and become a little wiser, after all that is what we are here for...we also tried to tweak, do our own thing only to knock our heads on a brick wall and eventually realizing, that sticking with HST is the best policy
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Aaah, welcome to HST - where the mind leads the body will follow... </div>

Yeah, now we can definitelly say Welcome!
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There's nothing like good reasoning.
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Thanks agaian guys.  
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If you all could now move over to my new thread and help me to better understand setting up my workout I would be greatly obliged.  

I did read everything on the site already. (unless something slipped through the cracks, there is alot of info!) However, I still am slightly confused about some things and just want to be sure I start this right.

I believe the thread is titled &quot;Help Understanding A Few Things&quot;

Thanks so much again guys,
Jeff

PS: I am curious how the HST will go. The last 8 week program I gained 20 lbs of muscle. Its quite easy to calculate as I have no pinchable bodyfat anywhere. However, gains seem to have plateued. (probably due to adaptation) I actually attribute my gains more to my diet than to my workout exactly though.

I have studied bio-chem and human nutrition for eons. I have always been a hard gainer. However, since switching my diet to raw beef, chicken and fish as well as plenty of raw fat and greens, my LBM has shot up as have my energy levels. Body fat instantly goes so you are cut all the time and healing is FAST (REALLY FAST). I am hoping that the HST, which seems to create a better medium of growth, will produce even better results! I can honeslty say that eating &quot;raw&quot; protein seems to totally eliminate the need for it in supplemental fasion. (It is SO MUCH more bio available, it even has creatine!) In fact most powders dont work well because they are not based on solid bio-chem science. (For example, one issue is that protien that isnt consumed WITH fat becomes largely unused and useless)

Anyway, if you all have any questions about the science of why raw meat is not only excellent for health but for building muscle let me know. I will be happy to help.
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,09:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anyway, if you all have any questions about the science of why raw meat is not only excellent for health but for building muscle let me know.  I will be happy to help.</div>
Although already discussed, if interested please do so in the Diet and Nutrition Forum.
 
Wow, there are other raw meat eaters in here?

Thats really good to hear. I havent been in the deit forum as I really like my diet alot. But I will definitely go in there to see what successes others have had with the raw meats. We are a sparse breed lol. Good to meat some others.

Jeff
 
<div>
(wisslewj @ Apr. 18 2007,09:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did read everything on the site already. (unless something slipped through the cracks, there is alot of info!)</div>
You might have missed this one in the FAQ. Hope it helps.

Training for fiber type

As for raw eating, I'm going to stay out of that one.
 
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