HST - is there any scientific proof?

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nlmorgan

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I'm kind of new to this training style and being one of the world's great hard gainers I'm still trying to find out the best way to build muscle. I've pretty much tried all the routines and none have really impressed me.
I am a total believer in science and if Professor so and so has conducted a study which says blah blah blah then that's what I like to hear. I've no time for what the local iron man/steroid junky says is Gospel. Hence my attention was stirred when this routine seemed to imply it was based purely on scientific principles not tradition.

I tried out a variation on it for a couple of weeks - basically doing every body part/2 sets each 3 times a week but going to failure (and forced reps) 10 - 12 reps each set. To my amazement I made some immediate strength gains. Was suddenly lifting about 8 - 10% more. So so far so good. Anecedotally I've been impressed and comments from others seem to be very supportive but ............
is there any scientific evidence to say the HST routine advocated on this site actually works. I'm not talking about evidence from the many studies that Bryan and others have used to form the jigsaw that is now HST but a specific study which compared this training routing against a more conventional one. So for example 20 guys trained for 8 weeks on HST and 20 guys did a conventional programme.

i.e side by side which one packs on the most muscle?

If it hasn't been done already, why doesn't someone do it?
 
You want scientific proof? Read the HST article. It lists over a dozen studies to back up what it says.
HST

Other than that, I don't know what you expect. No universities are going to do studies on whether HST is better than HIT or DC or WS or any of that. Read the studies that Bryan has "pieced together" and you should get the picture - progressively and chronically loading the muscle is what causes muscle growth.
 
Scientific proof - lots of guys bigger than they used to be.

Yep, proof enough for me.

I do experiment a lot with my own nutrition and exercise to see what works best for me. Once I settle on a program, I do it for 8 weeks to see what it does, document my results, and compare to other 8 week experiments.

Personally, doing it this way I found that:

OLAD makes you damn strong but isn't a big hypertropy inducing muscle builder.

Powerlifting - same thing.

Max OT - big muscle gains, big strength gains...but is still bodybuilding, not powerlifting.

HST - DAMN, PACKED ON 30LBS IN 8 WEEKS.
BF% went down too.

Starr's 5x5 - don't know yet. Getting stronger though.
 
Just posted a reply to the same question under FYI! Anyway, might as well throw it here as well.

A study like you suggest would be interesting but the variables are many and who's going to finance it? Answers on a postcard please...

The fact is that any training program will work for an untrained individual and probably get them past the novice and possibly even the intermediate stage when going by existing strength/bodyweight standards. However, at some point, linear progression will grind to a halt and any attempt to continue adding weight to the bar will not be met with an adaptive response. Something has to change. Some turn to drugs. Others turn to smarter ways to train.

Training using HST principles will allow an 'intermediate and beyond' lifter to continue making gains using scientific principles. Some variables are very individual specific (eg. volume) but an intermediate lifter will have a good idea of what works for him after a cycle or two and will then be able to experiment with some of the other training variables to continue pushing progress forward.

Best thing is to try HST by doing a proper cycle. I don't think you have done that yet and I reckon from your description of yourself as a hard-gainer you would be smart to do so. I don't believe there is such a thing as a hard-gainer if your test levels are normal. Most likely your existing training method is not effective enough and you are not eating enough to grow.

Provide us with more info and we will be able to help you set up a good training program and advise you on any dietary changes you will need to make in order to get the results you want.
 
There is no Proof here....its all a myth!

We can't help it ....we all drank the cool aid. !!!!
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Just kidding of course there is tons of proof...just read through the site!

Good luck....and ol by the way dont drink the cool aid!
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Drink the Kool Aid, it will make you really big and strong. Take my word for it, you don't need proof.


Yes, the Kool Aid is good.
 
From my experience, HST is the best method of training that I've seen so far. And I've been trying different approaches for about 10 years.
I love how it's based on scientific data and how logical and simple it is. A lot of great things in life are simple.
That's not to say that there isn't always room for improvement but the beauty of it is that you can improve the system yourself once you master the fundamentals.
And, don't drink Cool Aid, it's going to give you a big insulin spike on an empty stomach and shuttle the sugar straight to fat storage...(unless you're carb depleted) hehe...
Also, I'm not aware of any scientific studies comparing HST to any other method of training but you have a good point. It would be refreshing to see this kind of study done, even though there would be many variables that you'd have to take into account.
But, all the people that are gaining muscle on this program and their testimonials are another proof that HST is working.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Jan. 03 2007,20:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just posted a reply to the same question under FYI! Anyway, might as well throw it here as well.

A study like you suggest would be interesting but the variables are many and who's going to finance it? Answers on a postcard please...

The fact is that any training program will work for an untrained individual and probably get them past the novice and possibly even the intermediate stage when going by existing strength/bodyweight standards. However, at some point, linear progression will grind to a halt and any attempt to continue adding weight to the bar will not be met with an adaptive response. Something has to change. Some turn to drugs. Others turn to smarter ways to train.

Training using HST principles will allow an 'intermediate and beyond' lifter to continue making gains using scientific principles. Some variables are very individual specific (eg. volume) but an intermediate lifter will have a good idea of what works for him after a cycle or two and will then be able to experiment with some of the other training variables to continue pushing progress forward.

Best thing is to try HST by doing a proper cycle. I don't think you have done that yet and I reckon from your description of yourself as a hard-gainer you would be smart to do so. I don't believe there is such a thing as a hard-gainer if your test levels are normal. Most likely your existing training method is not effective enough and you are not eating enough to grow.

Provide us with more info and we will be able to help you set up a good training program and advise you on any dietary changes you will need to make in order to get the results you want.</div>
Thanks for all posts.

I wasn't in any way questioning the validity of HST, merely posing the simple acid test question. I'm not sure who would fund such a comparison but if I had the money and time (one day I will) I would love to do a straight comparison of maybe 5 diffferent well known training styles and see which one works best. As far as I know, no such experiment has ever been done, which surprises me.

Lol - in terms of me, I doubt my diet is way off. I follow the guidelines set out by Susan Kleiner - Power Eating - very good book - 1.7grams of protein per kg of bodyweight, 6 grams of carbs per kg of body weight and (probably) a few extra grams of fat as well. That said, after 15 years (plus 2 1/2 stone of muscle growth) I think I do now need a bloody good programme to overcome nature a bit. Am starting the first 8 week cycle in 1 week so all suggestions very welcome.

I have to say I'm somewhat skeptical that I'll blitz the tapemeasure, but I'll happily report back progress to anyone who is interested.

Vagrant - 30pounds in 8 weeks - are you serious? Your average lion cub would struggle to do that. What's the secret?
 
<div>
(nlmorgan @ Jan. 04 2007,11:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Jan. 03 2007,20:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just posted a reply to the same question under FYI! Anyway, might as well throw it here as well.

A study like you suggest would be interesting but the variables are many and who's going to finance it? Answers on a postcard please...

The fact is that any training program will work for an untrained individual and probably get them past the novice and possibly even the intermediate stage when going by existing strength/bodyweight standards. However, at some point, linear progression will grind to a halt and any attempt to continue adding weight to the bar will not be met with an adaptive response. Something has to change. Some turn to drugs. Others turn to smarter ways to train.

Training using HST principles will allow an 'intermediate and beyond' lifter to continue making gains using scientific principles. Some variables are very individual specific (eg. volume) but an intermediate lifter will have a good idea of what works for him after a cycle or two and will then be able to experiment with some of the other training variables to continue pushing progress forward.

Best thing is to try HST by doing a proper cycle. I don't think you have done that yet and I reckon from your description of yourself as a hard-gainer you would be smart to do so. I don't believe there is such a thing as a hard-gainer if your test levels are normal. Most likely your existing training method is not effective enough and you are not eating enough to grow.

Provide us with more info and we will be able to help you set up a good training program and advise you on any dietary changes you will need to make in order to get the results you want.</div>
Thanks for all posts.

I wasn't in any way questioning the validity of HST, merely posing the simple acid test question. I'm not sure who would fund such a comparison but if I had the money and time (one day I will) I would love to do a straight comparison of maybe 5 diffferent well known training styles and see which one works best. As far as I know, no such experiment has ever been done, which surprises me.

Lol - in terms of me, I doubt my diet is way off. I follow the guidelines set out by Susan Kleiner - Power Eating - very good book - 1.7grams of protein per kg of bodyweight, 6 grams of carbs per kg of body weight and (probably) a few extra grams of fat as well.  That said, after 15 years (plus 2  1/2 stone of muscle growth) I think I do now need a bloody good programme to overcome nature a bit. Am starting the first 8 week cycle in 1 week so all suggestions very welcome.

I have to say I'm somewhat skeptical that I'll blitz the tapemeasure, but I'll happily report back progress to anyone who is interested.  

Vagrant - 30pounds in 8 weeks - are you serious? Your average lion cub would struggle to do that. What's the secret?</div>
I am reading the Kliener book right now. Very good, indeed. Very consistent with John Berardi, too, except he advocates a lot more calories. Do a google search for berardi massive eating. If you eat like that and train HST, you will build a lot of mass.

As far as the science, HST is a compilation of existing science. Each principle is proven. It has not been clinically studied as a whole, but the parts have been. The massive anecdotal evidence suggests that HST works.
 
nlmorgan

Welcome to HST!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but going to failure (and forced reps) 10 - 12 reps each set.</div>

That was your first big mistake
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we don't train to failure at all, except on the last day of each minicycle every two weeks, and we interpret failure differently it is not total muscle failure but when a rep becomes too slow or the form starts fading, that to us is failure enough to stop!
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Proof? Who needs that? Check around the site, particularly the gains thread on this part of the forum, it is one of the stickies!

The best proof IMO is in the pudding, EAT IT UP!Take the Kool Aid, you will be surprised.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I wasn't in any way questioning the validity of HST, merely posing the simple acid test question. I'm not sure who would fund such a comparison but if I had the money and time (one day I will) I would love to do a straight comparison of maybe 5 diffferent well known training styles and see which one works best. As far as I know, no such experiment has ever been done, which surprises me.</div>

You gonna need a lot of money &quot;boet&quot;
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and yeah we all would like to see that in paper, but we do have enough proof, each one of us is it!
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The guys have it right - just do it. The HST program, that is. Try it once and you'll be sold. I've trained on and off for over 20 years, and a typical ecto with meso tendencies (small waist, small wrists, wide shoulders, large chest) and have always had a helluva time keeping weight on without weight training. Training just maintained my size (6'4, 180ish) over the past few years, but this program put on 5 lbs my first cycle and now, just starting my 5 rep portion of my second cycle, have added another 5 lbs. I'm over 190 for the first time in years with no extra fat (12% bodyfat) added.

Try it. That is all I'd recommend. And follow it closely the first time through. Don't go to failure and forced reps, etc. Heck, I only do ONE set for each rep range and am seeing these gains. And tho it's not touted as a strength program, I've gotten stronger on almost all lifts than I expected. I set my 15, 10 and 5 RM and blew them all away the FIRST cycle. Second cycle is in some cases 20 lbs higher through the 10's..............OK&lt; now I'm ranting.

Just try it.
 
if you ever did have the money to do a study on lets say five exercise styles, the problem is getting 5 people who are a simillar weight and height and size,they also must have trained for the same amount of time (newbies gain anyway) they would also have to eat the same amount as each other everyday and have the same activity levels
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so i doubt it would actually be viable
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<div>
(nlmorgan @ Jan. 04 2007,11:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Vagrant - 30pounds in 8 weeks - are you serious? Your average lion cub would struggle to do that. What's the secret?</div>
Training hard for 3 years, most of that time in a carb (therefore water) depleted state. Excessive cardio during that time to change my body from a 300lb fatass to a traithlete (did my first tri in May '06...finished last but finished). Training HIT style from Max OT to Powerlifting workouts during that entire time. Extremely calorie deficient too.

Then first real bulker started in July, eating big carbs, 5000 calories/day, testosterone replacement therapy for the first time (doc had been telling me I needed it for a long time before).

For the first time in 8 years, the MS symptoms subsided long enough to get a good 2 months of progressive training.

End result - 30lbs.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention. I did no cardio at all during this time. Not a very good idea...dropping cardio WAS a mistake. And don't forget, me getting a bit of supplemental test for a medical condition would be the equivalent of a normal person doing a cycle of steroids because I'd been so suppressed for so long. That helped my recovery a great deal.
 
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