HST Modification

[omega99]

I've been doing pretty basic 15-10-5 routines over the last 12 cycles and wanted to switch things up a bit here over the summer months. Recently, Old & Grey mentioned a routine where he was doing the 15-10-5 rep scheme over the course of "each week" as opposed to the entire cycle. The hope would be that this would cut down on some of the tendon issues I have at the end of the cycle, while still allowing for progressive load across the entire cycle. Also, it's interesting to note that UD 2.0 uses a similar rep scheme, although I realize the goal there is not solely hypertrophy.

In re-reading parts of the FAQ, I was reminded of this bit of information:

"You can't really apply the external load based simply on the capacity to do so, and expect to the muscle to respond the way you want it to (growth). Too much weight too soon, even though you can lift it, will not always result in an optimal hypertrophic response. Not only that, but the greater the load, the greater the response to build resistance to it, and/or get injured."

Based on this, using the the 15-10-5 per week rep scheme would get you into the heavier weights early, thereby seemingly increasing adaptive resistance and limiting hypertrophy. Can anyone comment on whether they feel this would indeed be hypertophy-limited vs. the standard linear progression?

 

[faz]

why would it get you into the heavier weights earlier,even though you are dong say 15s10s5s in one wk they would still go up in % ie the first wk would be 70% of your 15s 10s 5s 2n wk 75% etc etc so basicly you wouldnt hit your RMs untill wk 6 or 7.

 

[omega99]

<div>
(faz @ Jun. 09 2009,10:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">why would it get you into the heavier weights earlier,even though you are dong say 15s10s5s in one wk they would still go up in % ie the first wk would be 70% of your 15s 10s 5s 2n wk 75% etc etc so basicly you wouldnt hit your RMs untill wk 6 or 7.</div>
faz, i understand what you're saying, however, by hitting the 5's early in the cycle, you're exposing the muscle to a load that will always be heavier than the 15's &amp; 10's. Therefore, according to the FAQ, there may be more adaptive resistance as you zig-zag through the three different rep schemes. Understandably, with the 5's increasing over the length of the cycle, you'd spur hypertrophy, but would it be optimal vs. a more linear progression?

 

[scientific muscle]

I personally think that the standard Progression approach would be better for hypertrophy given the more gradual progression of the loads over a cycle.
To change things up, you could always do a long cycle at your top loads (5rms or negatives, max-stim, etc.) , and then when you are starting to burn out, take an SD and restart the cycle.
Mixing the rep ranges as you described seems to me to be an uneven stress over the cycle, where the higher load days early (5s, etc.) may cause more physiological resistance to the lower training load days.

That is how I understand it according to the HST theory as laid out by Haycock.

 

[Lol]

Hey omega,

This idea (15s, 10s and 5s each week) has been toyed with quite a bit over the years. I think MikeyNov tried out a cycle like this some time ago so he might chime in and let you know how he got on.

Personally, I think it would be very easy to burn out towards the end of a cycle like this as you'd eventually be maxing out for all rep ranges in the same week. I think it might be less than fun and make it difficult to push for new PRs.

I think it would be great to try during a cut as it's very similar, in fact, to how Lyle lays out his UD2 (as you mentioned). However, if I was cutting, I'd probably kick off with 85% of my maxes for each rep range and do mini-cycles of about four or five weeks each, back cycling to 85% again once I'd been at my maxes for a week or so. Also, I wouldn't push the loads up for the 15s w/o to my 15RM loads if I was on reduced cals. Instead I'd treat the 15s w/o like a depletion w/o and do more sets. The 10s and 5s w/os each week should provide enough of a stimulus to help maintain muscle mass and strength in a seasoned lifter.

Out of interest, what are your goals for the summer? And how have you been programming your cycles recently? ie. rep ranges, zig-zag, total volume, exercises etc.

If your tendons have been bothering you why not do a couple of shorter cycles back-to-back where you spend less time in the 5s? Don't SD between these two cycles but treat the first week of 15s as a deload week.

You could try something like this (assuming 3 x weekly, M,W,F w/os):

Part I
Week 1: 55%, 60%, 65%
Week 2: 65%, 70%, 75%
Week 3: 75%, 80%, 85%
Week 4: 85%, 90%, 95%
Week 5: 90%, 95%, 100%
Part II
Week 6: 60%, 65%, 70% (deload week)
Week 7: 70%, 75%, 80%
Week 8: 80%, 85%, 90%
Week 9: 90%, 90%, 95%
Week 10: 95%, 100%, 105%*

Where 100% is your 5RM at the start of the cycle.

* Hopefully, by the time you get here you will manage a good 5 reps.

Each session you completely ignore rep ranges but pump out the reps until you are a rep or two from failure. Have a target rep count in mind for each exercise that you do, say 30 reps, and try to stick to that for the cycle. So, if you managed 20 or more reps @ 55% 5RM, you would only need to do a very brief second set. If you managed 10 reps @ 90% 5RM you might need to do something like 10,8,7,5 to get your 30 rep total.

If you feel particularly tired on any one day then curtail a set sooner and just do more sets until you get your required rep count. If you feel strong then push harder to get a few more reps but still stop short of failure, particularly on any big compounds. (I never feel that failing on curls is anywhere near the same thing as failing on squats or deads; one is a bit unpleasant the other is a truly holistic hell!  

)

For the deload week, back the volume off a bit too. Instead of 30 total reps maybe shoot for 20 total reps and just do 2 sets of 10. Then pump the volume back up again the following week.

At the end of the 10 weeks you would probably want to take a proper SD.

Just an idea.  

 

[RUSS]

^^^^ Very Nice!^^^

 

[omega99]

<div>
(Lol @ Jun. 10 2009,5:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Out of interest, what are your goals for the summer? And how have you been programming your cycles recently? ie. rep ranges, zig-zag, total volume, exercises etc.
</div>
Guys, thanks for the suggestions. Based on your ideas, I've decided not to go for the 15-10-5 per week for this next cycle.

Lol, to answer your questions (and thanks for asking), my goal is is to cut while retaining/adding LBM. I did a bit of reading on UD2, but I'm just not motivated to go that route right now. My previous HST training, for the most part, has followed the basic vanilla routine, other than adding a little more intensity during the lighter weights. My total volume comes in around 150 reps per session, and I will incorporate some zig-zagging if needed to avoid hitting maxes too soon. Recently, I've become less intent on the &quot;simply and win&quot; concept in favor of using more exercises to hit different parts of the muscle...&quot;diversify and win&quot; perhaps?  

With that being said, I'm going to generally follow what you and Sci have suggested. I'll start at about 60% of 5RM and progress upward using a constant volume of 20 reps per exercise (this will minimize the 15's). I would like to get to 6 weeks with this, perhaps reducing the load increments to accomplish the timeline. After 6 weeks, I plan to stick with the heavy weights for another 4-5 weeks to focus on strength (should I de-load or SD before this??). During the heavies, I'll either reduce the volume or the frequency to deal with CNS and tendon issues. I'm also incorporating some HIIT and carb cycling to work on the &quot;cut&quot;. How does this sound?

 

[ratty]

Just my opinion omega..as im concentrating on cutting while maintaining muscle for the next couple of weeks..and im also cutting out carbs whereever possible..

To my understanding it would be more optimal to drop volume rather than frequency, as you know tension on the muscle is more important than high volume and consider if you are taking in less energy (cutting) you increase your chances of overtraining, i felt a little exhausted last week so dropped the isos (direct biceps and triceps work) and dropped from 4 to 3 sests on the other compound exercises..

As for cardio i would stick to steady state rather than interval as steady state has been shown to burn more calories than interval (from an article lyle wrote on his website) and also high intensity interval can result in overtraining your legs (if you are training your legs to maintain muscle aswel 3x weekly)

Just something for you to think about...

Aswel as cutting out carbs and training probably at about 70% max heart rate for half an hour in between days of 5RM training 3x weekly i have got some good results from the last 2 weeksl losing around 6lbs..i can just about 6 my abs for the 1st time in about a year lol..

Anyway whatever you decide to do keep us updated

Ratty.

 

[omega99]

<div>
(ratty @ Jun. 29 2009,10:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To my understanding it would be more optimal to drop volume rather than frequency, as you know tension on the muscle is more important than high volume and consider if you are taking in less energy (cutting) you increase your chances of overtraining, i felt a little exhausted last week so dropped the isos (direct biceps and triceps work) and dropped from 4 to 3 sests on the other compound exercises..
</div>
Ratty, thanks for the advice. I'm well into my cycle and to the point where I'm either going to drop volume or frequency. Due to some shoulder pain, I'm more inclined to drop the frequency, although not sure if longer rest periods will be any better than lower volume as it relates to pain. Would love to hear more debate on this.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
As for cardio i would stick to steady state rather than interval as steady state has been shown to burn more calories than interval (from an article lyle wrote on his website) and also high intensity interval can result in overtraining your legs (if you are training your legs to maintain muscle aswel 3x weekly)
</div>
Are you sure Lyle's conclusion was that steady state was better to burn calories? I thought I remember reading that no significant differences were found. Anyway, I've been incorporating some HIIT on off-days. To spare the legs and provide more balance, I do intervals of push ups, horizontal pull-ups, and sprints. Nutritionally, I'm also cutting carbs on off days and before workouts while keeping protein at min 1 g/lb BW. Seems to be working well as I've dropped 4 lbs. with some slight size gains.

 

[ryolacap]

Instead of 15's 10's 5's every week, you could just shorten the HST cycle to 1 week of each.  Doing so would still put the 5's 3 week apart.  Also steady state and HIIT boils down to exceeding the distance. If in steady state you can burn more because you can not only go longer time wise but also in the physical amount (distance, sets etc.).  A great way to do it is to park 2 miles away from the gym and walk there and back (or jog but I find it is the same as a good fast walk without the knee and hip pain)  Including your workout which is pretty close to a HIIT style, you will burn some major fat.  That’s how I did it.

Oh yea, and as for joint pain, I have heard the majority of the time it comes from overuse of a movement plane, you could be doing the same exercises too much to often.  It is possible that if you use diferent types of exerciese you might eliminate your pain. (ie maybe throw in a dumbbell day or 2)

 

[omega99]

<div>
(ryolacap @ Jul. 03 2009,7:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also steady state and HIIT boils down to exceeding the distance. If in steady state you can burn more because you can not only go longer time wise but also in the physical amount (distance, sets etc.).  A great way to do it is to park 2 miles away from the gym and walk there and back (or jog but I find it is the same as a good fast walk without the knee and hip pain)  Including your workout which is pretty close to a HIIT style, you will burn some major fat.  That’s how I did it.
</div>
Yes, this is correct. It is all about oxygen consumption as it relates to distance and time. I had to blow the dust off my exercise phys textbook to understand this. In my case, I can consume the same amount of O2 in much shorter time with HIIT than walking to the gym. And because my gym is in the basement...  

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh yea, and as for joint pain, I have heard the majority of the time it comes from overuse of a movement plane, you could be doing the same exercises too much to often.  It is possible that if you use diferent types of exerciese you might eliminate your pain. (ie maybe throw in a dumbbell day or 2)</div>
Injury for me is sometimes the result of getting the weight into position (no spotter here). For example, getting heavy weight off the rack during bench press has killed my right shoulder. You'd think I'd learn.

Very good advice, nonetheless -- thank you.