HST-training session duration, cortisol, protein synthesis

[realphysique]

I've just implemented HST. In the 3rd week (2nd cycle) and am reflecting on some concerns. Can you share your thoughts....

Using the template workout on the website, most exercises one set, my workout is taking almost 2.5 hours. I cant split it to am and pm.
Is this what others experience or am I just slow? This is the link to the HST site and page with the workout: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html

So here are some of my concerns:
1) cortisol activation (catabolic - fat storage) after roughly an hour is a common discussion point
2) Legs are done first in the routine and it will be over 2 hrs before they see my post work-out protein drink. Am i missing the optimal window of protein synthesis?
3) Over-training as a result of the long duration and hence muscle loss.

Here is what I am doing to mitigate these things as well as opinions:
1) I eat plenty of complex cabs at noon allowing 4 hours to load the muscles with glycogen before the workout at about 5 pm
2) Pre-workout (about 45 min before) I have 25g of protein isolate and about 35g of simple carb (corn syrup with out HFC)
3) During workout I have water with about 35g simple carb, arginine, creatine, glutamine (arginine, creatine, glutamine 2 other times during the day fyi, not that it has bearing to my concern)
4) post workout is 40g protein isolate, dinner about 1hr after. Counting on carbs in circulation during workout to keep protein synthesis going.

a) I am considering that the simple carbs before and during the work out will mitigate cortisol (for the most part)
b) pre workout protein shake will be in circulation and mitigate the delay between finishing leg workout (and other big body parts) and post workout protein shake so the optimal protein synthesis window may not be lost.
c) I'm thinking over-training will not occur since the sets and reps for any one muscle group are low, plus the continual intake of simple carbs.

OK... thoughts?

 

[gbglifter]

Hi mate. Im not able to go into the technicalities of cortisol, catabolism etc but it seems like your sessions are taking far too long. It probably is a good idea to post your work-out so it can be analyzed. I too fell into that trap previously of working out too long and doing too many exercises in the belief that I had to get everyone in to work that specific muscle. Excluding abs I do 6 exercises each session, whereby I alternate my squats and deadlifts between two splits. Regarding protein synthesis: as far as Im aware it doesnt start until a couple of hours after the load is exerted. Others will know better. If youre training for that long your´e probably putting your body inte a catabolic situation. I dont take any supplements pre/post whatever, apart from multivitamin and vitamin d(as I live in sweden and its dark six months a year). I really feel you should try and optimise your training and get it cut down to an hour or so tops. (Im unable to split my paragraphs for some strange reason, sorry for that).

 

[Totentanz]

not really sure why that's taking you so long to do I've done the same routine and I can finish it in under an hour. Any idea why?

 

[Old and Grey]

7 minutes per exercise? WTF? The problem is not the program my friend. You are simply resting too much. IF each exercise takes you 1 minute and you rest between exercises/sets for 2 minutes, you should be done in about an hour. And, quite frankly, using submaximal weights, that is probably about 20 minutes too long. There is enough time built into your program right now to also run 1/3 of a marathon or bike about 40 miles.

 

[realphysique]

With the number of questions I had with my original post at the bottom.... I can say that after 3 weeks, I had gains. 2.5" on chest, .5" on arms, .5" on shoulders, 1" inch on calves.I was kind of shocked, but the tape measure doesn't lie! Now into the 5 rep. stage. Soon to be finished with the first cycle. I do believe though that the supplementation of carbs and protein, and specifically the timing of consumption had to play a role both in mitigating the concerns I had as well as promoting growth.

 

[Sci]

With the number of questions I had with my original post at the bottom.... I can say that after 3 weeks, I had gains. 2.5" on chest, .5" on arms, .5" on shoulders, 1" inch on calves.I was kind of shocked, but the tape measure doesn't lie! Now into the 5 rep. stage. Soon to be finished with the first cycle. I do believe though that the supplementation of carbs and protein, and specifically the timing of consumption had to play a role both in mitigating the concerns I had as well as promoting growth.

2.5" on chest in 3 weeks? WTF? Can you get me some of the stuff you are on?

 

[Totentanz]

Diagnosis: overthinking

1) cortisol activation (catabolic - fat storage) after roughly an hour is a common discussion point

Cortisol doesn't matter. Don't ever speak of it again and anyone who is talking about the evils of cortisol due to not having x supplement or doing y exercise, or any other crazy stuff, you are instructed to ignore in the future because they are idiots.

2) Legs are done first in the routine and it will be over 2 hrs before they see my post work-out protein drink. Am i missing the optimal window of protein synthesis?

The window of protein synthesis is 36 hours with the peak at 24 hours after the workout, so this doesn't matter.

3) Over-training as a result of the long duration and hence muscle loss.

Only a pathetically weak child could overtrain on a sensible HST routine.

1) I eat plenty of complex cabs at noon allowing 4 hours to load the muscles with glycogen before the workout at about 5 pm

This is a good idea although that's not really how glycogen loading works.

2) Pre-workout (about 45 min before) I have 25g of protein isolate and about 35g of simple carb (corn syrup with out HFC)
3) During workout I have water with about 35g simple carb, arginine, creatine, glutamine (arginine, creatine, glutamine 2 other times during the day fyi, not that it has bearing to my concern)

Arginine has no effect on muscle or strength gains, as proven by myriad studies. It does have the benefit of potentially causing a heart attack during your workout, so if that is something you are looking for then keep taking it. Creatine is a good supplement though, I would probably up the carbs during the workout a bit if your goal is muscle/strength gain. 50 grams would be good.

4) post workout is 40g protein isolate, dinner about 1hr after. Counting on carbs in circulation during workout to keep protein synthesis going.

Protein synthesis doesn't stop if you don't have carbs or protein immediately after your workout, as the food you have eaten earlier in the day will still be going through the digestion process. If anything, you should be getting all OCD obsessive about nutrition the day after your workout since protein synthesis doesn't even peak until 24 hours after the workout.