HST Training

[Guest]

Hey guys, first off I'd like to introduce myself to the forum as I FINALLY acquired posting privileges thanks to Dan. My name's Marko and I've been weight training consistently on a weekly basis for 1.5yr now. I didn't make much progress weight lifting in high school in terms of size or gaining muscle mass, however I just completed my 1st year in college and since the beginning of the year Sept of '06, I've probably gained 20-25lbs of mass and a ton of strength from traditional split routines working out each muscle only once a week. However I'm still pretty light for my height at 6'5 and around 190lbs give or take a few lbs depending on water weight, etc. I've been reading alot of the information on this website and the forum for the past week and am excited to start my first cycle of HST which I am now testing RMs for. HST looks very promising and I love the principles it's based on and the fact that it's derived from actual research and science, so I can't wait for my SD period (which I'm thinking will be 9 days) to be over so I can start my first cycle. I'll post my cycle and maybe you guys can give me some advice on how to improve it or tweak it to optimize my results.

Here are the exercises in order in which they will be performed:

Flat Bench alternated w/ Incline Bench
Chin ups
Dips
Pull ups (Wide grip) alternated w/ Bent Over BB Row
Military Press
Squat alternated w/ SLDL
1 leg calf raises
Triceps Pushdown (Rope extension)
BB Biceps curl

I tried to get all the compounds to be first, finish w/ Squats or deadlifts so I don't get burned out early, and finally end with a couple iso's for the arms.

The rep/set scheme I plan on using is: 1x15, 2x10, 4x5
For 2 weeks a piece and when I get done w/ the 6 weeks, I'll probably end up extending the 5s 2 more weeks (which I'm still unclear about, do I keep on adding more weight to the 5s to exceed my 5RM, repeat the last workout of the mesocycle 6 more times, or simply start the mesocycle from the beginning progressively going to the 5RM?)

I also noticed a lil bit of zigzagging is present on a few of the exercises, so I eliminated it the best I can by repeating a few loads for 2 workouts and then progressing. That's mostly for the iso's and a couple others that don't use as much weight though.

Anyway just wanted to introduce myself and let you guys know my plans with HST, and I look forward to being part of the discussion in this forum (and to starting my first HST cycle!).

-Marko

 

[Martin Levac]

Greetings,

Getting burned out? Finishing the workout with the most difficult exercise? Don't do that, please.

Start your workout with the deadlift/squat. It's the most demanding exercise, it's the one that requires the most strength, you have most strength at the beginning of the workout. Start with the deadlift/squat. If you plan on getting burned out, you are planning incorrectly. Instead, plan on not getting burned out. You will need all your fatigue capacity to maintain the frequency and load progression. Otherwise, you'll have to cut back on either frequency or absolute load. The trick here is to cut back on volume from the start. Then, as you become stronger and/or more enduring, add volume as desired.

Apart from that little detail in sequence, it's all good.

What about diet? You must plan on eating more than maintenance to grow. Otherwise, all that training is for naught. Muscle comes from food.

 

[UFGatorDude30]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I also noticed a lil bit of zigzagging is present on a few of the exercises, so I eliminated it the best I can by repeating a few loads for 2 workouts and then progressing. That's mostly for the iso's and a couple others that don't use as much weight though.</div>
Are you under the assumption that zigzag is bad?  While I was successful with strict linear progression last cycle, I don't think I would ever go back to it after utilizing zigzag in my current cycle.  Don't think of it as taking a step backwards, but more like giving your body a much needed &quot;breather&quot; in between mesocycles.  My best form, explosiveness, and crispness in workouts come on days after I drop my volume.  

A lot of things look good on your workout, however I see some possible flaws toward the end of your cycle unless I read it incorrectly.  I find it very unlikely you will be able to pull off 4 x 5 of flat, incline, and dips when you get into the real heavy weight.  Or the same with bent over rows, chins, and pull ups all in the same workout.  Not that I doubt your dedication or effort, but I feel I'd be dead after doing just that.  Consolidation is key.  What is your frequency going to be, M-W-F?  

Glad to have a new member on the forums, I know waiting on that SD to be over with before your first cycle sucks.  

 

[Guest]

In response to Martin's comments regarding exercise order, I just assumed it would make sense to put squat or deadlift (they will be alternating) last based on some of the threads I have read recently. It seems like the majority of people were complaining about squats/deadlifts being very taxing and feeling burned out for the remainder of the workout if they are done first. As this is my first cycle, I don't know how I would feel, I'm merely basing the order on the threads I read regarding exercise order.

And I have read that zigzagging is good for CNS recovery and what not, so I am certainly not under the impression that it's bad, like I said, the first couple of workouts will be repeated weights from the previous mesocycle on some of the exercises. However I tried to keep it to no more than 2 workouts of repeated loads by repeating some of the loads as they approach the RM for that phase. I've read that there is no noticeable difference whether you zigzag or not, so I'm not too concerned about this detail.

As for my diet, it seems like I'll need approx 3300-3500cal/day to add weight to my current 190lbs frame. This might be kind of a challenge seeing how I'll have to spend a large part of my day eating

As far as diet, using fitday.com to calculate all the calories, percentages and ratios, i entered an average day's food for me and got the following results:

Calorie total: approx. 3400
Fat total: 121g
Carb total: 244g
Protein: 317g

The macronutrient ratios correspond to: 34%/25%/40% of fat/carb/protein

Any comments on my diet or further suggestions on improving my 1st cycle would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[Guest]

Btw I forgot to mention in response to UFGatorDude's post, that I will be alternating Flat/Incline bench and all the other exercises that are listed as &quot;alternating&quot; in an A/B type fasion, so 3 of the 6 workouts will use the A version, while the other 3 use the B version. So really in one workout, the only body part that has more than one exercise will be chest, which will be flat or incline bench with dips. And MAYBE chin ups with pullups or bent over row, even though chin ups seem to be more of a biceps workout with some back work.

 

[Martin Levac]

Consider the risk of injury.

When you're fresh, you can use all your muscles to handle the heavy weight. When you've done all your other lifts, you can't use those muscles as effectively. You have become a little weaker, a little fatigued and perhaps you're not as focused as you were when you had just entered the gym. The risk of injury is greater without having touched the weight yet.

Now consider a minor aspect, you must lift lighter than if you begin with it.

Again, when you're fresh, you can use all your muscles to handle the heavy weight. Thus, you can lift much heavier than when some of your muscles have already been taxed. The forearms, the biceps, the shoulders, etc. Since you can lift heavier, you can progress the load longer.

 

[UFGatorDude30]

Well let him also consider on his own, his priority of exercises. Some people just don't really give a squat (pun intended

) about legs. Although squats and DL's do have offer many benefits to muscles other than our legs, some people put them last because they have other things they would rather dedicate that &quot;starting fresh&quot; strength you were referring to. I think you got a good start Marko, and as I tell pretty much everyone else, personal experience with this will be your best advice. Best wishes and good luck.

 

[Guest]

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted on my progress and hopefully I can pack on some good quality muscle mass this first cycle

 

[Ministro]

Caliballa, seeing your height and weight, looks IMO you are eating poorly in calories. Use a bigger spoon, i mean if u are tall and wanna gain weight u might be wanting to eat from 4000 to 4800 depending on how much work out u do, and how active you are on other activities during the day
If you use to walk arround thru the day, and you add 1 hour of workout per day, you will need at least 4k calories or more, depending on your metabolism and a good timing on the diet (knowing what to eat and when to eat it) its necessary.
Im pretty close to your buildup. im 6´4 weight 189 pounds 10% BF. When i eat 3000 clories daily, i Cut, so if u want to grow, you have to add much more. The insulin sensitivity from your body will determine the Muscle:fat gain radio.
If u are going to eat more, do a week of changing, sart adding 200 kcal per day. or something like that, drastic changes from night to day wont be received good by your body.
Macronutrients to grow:
40 to 50 carbs
30 to 40 prots
20 fat

the Carb must be bigger than protein ratio to grow.
avoid taking milk products all day long, like yogurts. products from milk tend to send insulin skyhigh, try to do this after workout and with a good dose of carbs. I use to take liquid meal after workout . I use 4 oz of honey, half litter low fat milk, 1 serving of creatine,30 grams whey protein, and if u habe berries better.
Also for your diet, try to take 8 to 10 serving of veggies during the day, this is very important, and neglected by much ppl, you need protein but also u need veggies, take some fruit also but not too much, more veggies than fruits.

hope the diet tips help u out, post workout meal is pretty important, and really can make a difference
Hope u can understand my english

 

[Guest]

Damn Ministro, that's a whole lot of calories, I consumed 3600cal today and thought I spent way too much time eating today! I'll try to stay around 4000cal during my 1st cycle of HST, but it'll be tough, no doubt about that. At the end of the day and my first day of keeping a log of everything I eat on fitday.com, it seems like my ratio of fatrotein:carbs is 32%:38%:30% so perhaps I'll try and replace some of the fats with carbs, but it's easier said than done!

 

[Martin Levac]

<div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 09 2007,22:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well let him also consider on his own, his priority of exercises. Some people just don't really give a squat (pun intended

) about legs. Although squats and DL's do have offer many benefits to muscles other than our legs, some people put them last because they have other things they would rather dedicate that &quot;starting fresh&quot; strength you were referring to. I think you got a good start Marko, and as I tell pretty much everyone else, personal experience with this will be your best advice. Best wishes and good luck.</div>
I do not presume to decide for him, I merely suggest he consider important aspects of these exercises in order for him to make a decision. The alternative is that I remain quiet and allow him to continue with his assumption. An assumption I think is flawed. After all, he did ask for advice.

 

[Fausto]

Welcome Marko

So far you've had some good starting opinions.

Zigzagging is a good thing, as it gives you a chance to recover some between mesocycles, I am personally doing linear progression and at times have to back off some, good of you to re-do some of the loads, it is alomst the same thing as zigzagging.

Your workout looks fine if used as an A/B type set-up, I'd personally drop the calf raise, but that is up to you, also do not send too much time on the curls/tricep, rather use them as a superset to dips (dips+pushdowns) and chins (Chins+incline curl), why I say d/b incline curl is because it gives the most stretch.

Words of wisdom from Ministro...you can follow what you've set up but if you are not growing, start pushing it up, 500 p/week until you start grwoing again.

Eating a pain? Try calory dense foods, smaller helpings but more calories.

Download Berardi's e-book (Essential Berardi) there is some excellent tips on eating for growth, if you can't e-mail me (faustos@aspenpharma.com) and I'll send it to you!

 

[Martin Levac]

<div>
(Ministro @ Aug. 10 2007,00:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Caliballa, seeing your height and weight, looks IMO you are eating poorly in calories. Use a bigger spoon, i mean if u are tall and wanna gain weight u might be wanting to eat from 4000 to 4800 depending on how much work out u do, and how active you are on other activities during the day
If you use to walk arround thru the day, and you add 1 hour of workout per day, you will need at least 4k calories or more, depending on your metabolism and a good timing on the diet (knowing what to eat and when to eat it) its necessary.
Im pretty close to your buildup. im 6´4 weight 189 pounds 10% BF. When i eat 3000 clories daily, i Cut, so if u want to grow, you have to add much more. The insulin sensitivity from your body will determine the Muscle:fat gain radio.
If u are going to eat more, do a week of changing, sart adding 200 kcal per day. or something like that, drastic changes from night to day wont be received good by your body.
Macronutrients to grow:
40 to 50 carbs
30 to 40 prots
20 fat

the Carb must be bigger than protein ratio to grow.
avoid taking milk products all day long, like yogurts. products from milk tend to send insulin skyhigh, try to do this after workout and with a good dose of carbs. I use to take liquid meal after workout . I use 4 oz of honey, half litter low fat milk, 1 serving of creatine,30 grams whey protein, and if u habe berries better.
Also for your diet, try to take 8 to 10 serving of veggies during the day, this is very important, and neglected by much ppl, you need protein but also u need veggies, take some fruit also but not too much, more veggies than fruits.

hope the diet tips help u out, post workout meal is pretty important, and really can make a difference
Hope u can understand my english

</div>
Please provide data about:

. Drastic changes and how well it's received by the body

. &quot;macronutrients to grow&quot;

. Carbs must be higher than proteins to grow

. Milk products and insulin levels

. Berries being better

. 8-10 vegetable servings being very important

. More vegetables than fruits


I understand that your intention is a good one and you want to give the best advice you can. But, your post is read not just by the original poster and some of us, like myself, don't simply take it all at face value. I want a little more information about these things. The point is, my personal experience disagrees with every single point I listed above. There is one thing I agree with and it's the amount of calories we must eat to grow. We must eat more.

Concerning the calories burned during the day, I use this:

http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner/jumpsite/calculat.htm

 

[faz]

you have chins and pullups,they are basicly the same drop one and do b-o-r that way you have a vertical and horizontal pull.

 

[Hooked]

<div>
(faz @ Aug. 10 2007,08:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">you have chins and pullups,they are basicly the same drop one and do b-o-r that way you have a vertical and horizontal pull.</div>
what is B-O-R??

 

[RUSS]

<div>
(Hooked @ Aug. 10 2007,10:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(faz @ Aug. 10 2007,08:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">you have chins and pullups,they are basicly the same drop one and do b-o-r that way you have a vertical and horizontal pull.</div>
what is B-O-R??</div>
You say tomAYtoe I say tomAHtoe , FAZ says B O R (bent over row) I say BB row (barbell row) - lets call the whole thing off...

 

[Ministro]

Why veggies:
I suggest that they're essential as they're rich in micronutrients and can balance out the net acidity inherent in a high protein meal

Berries does not mean they will be much better, i meant that the `post workout meal might consider them cause the anti oxidant on them are high

Milk products raise insulin levels very high, and we dont want insulin cronicly high

Diets with more carbs are made for grow, and higher fats than carbs to cut, i dont think im the only one that has read that in more than a few articles

No hard changes are good for any of us from night to next day, if u are eating 2000 cal and jump to 4000 wont be taken good by ur body, its like jumping from 15´s to negatives from a day to the other, it must be a &quot;changing period&quot; to make it easier to our bodies, its much common sense. u might think im wrong , its just my opinion.

Martin, if you want more info about these themes, go to http://www.johnberardi.com lots of great info there....

 

[faz]

<div>
(RUSS @ Aug. 10 2007,16:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Hooked @ Aug. 10 2007,10:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(faz @ Aug. 10 2007,08:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">you have chins and pullups,they are basicly the same drop one and do b-o-r that way you have a vertical and horizontal pull.</div>
what is B-O-R??</div>
You say tomAYtoe I say tomAHtoe , FAZ says B O R (bent over row) I say BB row (barbell row) - lets call the whole thing off...

</div>