I just don't get HST for cutting...

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I believe HST principles to be THE science behind hypertrophy. The critical element is strategic deconditioning, which allows us to grow from lighter weights, through the planned progression. I get it, and I can testify to the results!

But the claim that HST is best for cutting, to me, doesn't hold up. Using some basic logic, it does... If it's the best thing for growing muscle, then it must be the best for minimizing muscle loss too.

The problem I see is that everyone recommends skipping the SD for a cutting cycle. But skipping the SD means that the lighter weights, and therefore the progression are ineffective. Your muscles have adapted to the weight, so they will not be stimulated to grow. If they are not stimulated to grow, then why would following an HST based plan be any better than another weight lifting plan? Howis the sub-max weight and the HST progression of any usefulness at all?

By taking out the SD phase, and therefore the benefits of progression through lighter loads, you are gutting HST.

Now, I have not researched cutting. I don't have the knowledge of Bryan or Dan. I actually know very little. I guess I need to be educated in the matter.

What I does make sense to me about HST for cutting is the full body workouts, three times per week (or more). I just think you could stick to a specific rep range at a given % of your RM for as long as you need to cut.

Am I wrong in my thinking? Is there something I'm missing?
 
That's a really interesting point, here is my take on it based on my understanding of HST (my personal understanding only):

Load is what stimulates growth, therefore load is what will prevent muscle loss. As long as your lifting a sufficient enough load to lesson/stop muscle loss, whatever weight you lift will not be important, as you won't be putting on any new muscle during a cut. Who knows what that min weight is though, so best to lift heavy throughout the cut. Ie. skip the 15s and light 10s, as these are mainly to prepare joints for progressively heavier weights to put on more amounts of muscle. For maintaining muscle though you could probably lift the same weight for the whole cut. No point in ruining your joints with progressively heavier weights if the same weight will maintain forever (if we assume this is true). Therefore apart from "frequent load=hypertrophy", ie. doing heavy full bodys 3 days a week, a good cutting weights program wouldn't resemble HST (in terms of progressive load, changing reps etc.) In fact it would more closely resemble an strength program, especially since during a cut you also want to maintain strength. Therefore SD, too, becomes unimportant.

If anything I have said here that contradicts what someone knows to be true, then please let me know.
 
If you would like to maintain your muscle mass while cutting fat on a diet, doesn't it make sense that whatever built the muscle best would be the best stimulus for maintaining it? Why would a different stimulus work better?
 
It isn't. Load, frequently applied, stimulates growth, and prevents muscle loss. The other HST stuff, SD, progression, rep ranges etc, are to do with fatique management and fighting off RBE. They don't have anything directly to do with muscle growth per see, only to make the frequent load more effective.
 
How is not doing an SD making HST ineffective? I really don't get this. You are cutting, so you can't gain muscle anyway, so who cares about hypertrophy when it isn't going to happen? That's why it doesn't matter. If you are actually on a calorie deficit, you aren't going to grow. Also, it takes MUCH MUCH less to maintain a muscle than it does to build a new one. RBE isn't much of an issue if all you want to do is maintain what muscle mass you have. The whole point of SD is to bring RBE down a bit, but since you are cutting and RBE doesn't matter, then why would you need to SD?

All an SD will accomplish while cutting is giving you two weeks of no activity so your metabolism can start to tank already before you've even started cutting. We all know that cutting causes metabolic slowdown and that exercise brings metabolism up, so why would you sit around for two weeks doing nothing when you could be doing the 15s, keeping your metabolism high and preparing for the beginning of your cut when you go into the 10s?
 
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(Totentanz @ Sep. 28 2006,20:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How is not doing an SD making HST ineffective?  I really don't get this.  You are cutting, so you can't gain muscle anyway, so who cares about hypertrophy when it isn't going to happen?  That's why it doesn't matter.  If you are actually on a calorie deficit, you aren't going to grow.  Also, it takes MUCH MUCH less to maintain a muscle than it does to build a new one.  RBE isn't much of an issue if all you want to do is maintain what muscle mass you have.  The whole point of SD is to bring RBE down a bit, but since you are cutting and RBE doesn't matter, then why would you need to SD?

All an SD will accomplish while cutting is giving you two weeks of no activity so your metabolism can start to tank already before you've even started cutting.  We all know that cutting causes metabolic slowdown and that exercise brings metabolism up, so why would you sit around for two weeks doing nothing when you could be doing the 15s, keeping your metabolism high and preparing for the beginning of your cut when you go into the 10s?</div>
As usual, I agree with you. But since your not deconditioning, there's no point in going through the whole progression thing either, since SD is what makes the progression work in the first place. So in the end, HST through a cutting cycle isn't really HST, is it? It's just frequent, full body workouts -- which is fine!
 
HST isn't taking an SD every 8 weeks anyway. It's just taking an SD when you plateau due to RBE or can't continue due to joint pains, etc. So yes, it's still HST as long as you are using progressive load.

The reason you would want to use progression still is because staying at your maxes all throughout a cut might cause you to burn out. If you start submax, you can keep your energy levels up, and you can keep going for a much longer period before your joints start to complain.
 
I think its fairly safe to say then, that HST is specific to growing muscle (hence the name &quot;hypertrophy specific&quot;), not losing fat, perhaps there should be a &quot;Cutting Specific Training&quot;, or CST
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