injury prevention

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imported_davidwillis

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I have just started my first sycle of HST, and my first time lifting agian since high school 15 years ago. I have just finished my first week of 10's, and have noticed that my left shoulder is makeing a lot of noise when I do my inc, and flat db bench presses. I didn't really notice it until the last week of the 15's, and there is not much pain, but it cracks a lot especially when I am lowering the weight down.

for my warm up I do two sets of 40 sit-ups, and 40 reverse extentions (I think that is what they are called). Then I do my squats, and warm up for my bench presses by doing 10X15 db presses (mostly just to stretch things out). Yesterday I did a better job of warming up by starting with 10x15 , 15X15, and 25X5 before starting with my lifting weight of 37X10. It seemed to help a little, but there was still some cracking.

So my question is, do you think it is just something where I need to warm up more/better? Is it something that may cause an injury down the road? What would you suggest?

Thanks
 
Yeah, warmup to your working weight using lighter weights.

It can make the workout last a bit longer, but is worth the extra effort to get everything loosened up with good blood flow. Some need less warmup, some of us need a bit more.

Personally, I start with 50% of my working weight for 10, then 60% for 8, then 75% with 3, 90% with 2 and then do my working sets.

However, once a muscle has been properly warmed up and acclimated to the work, it doesn't have to be done again. For example, if you've deadlifted why bother to warmup for additional exercises for traps, quads, hams, low back...they've already been worked. If you've squatted and want to do some leg extensions there is no need to warm up for the extensions.
 
Make sure your scapulae are together when you bench. Don't leave them hanging off the bench. You need to support your shoulder joints as much as possible. You should be pushing against a nice tight solid mass from your traps down your back.
 
Thanks Lol, I forgot to mention squeezing the shoulder blades together.

I also forgot to suggest tucking the elbows close to the body, not letting them stick out to the sides. Elbows out = shoulder pain for many people.
 
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(vagrant @ Dec. 22 2006,04:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I also forgot to suggest tucking the elbows close to the body, not letting them stick out to the sides.  Elbows out = shoulder pain for many people.</div>
Yup. Some seem to get away with this better than others but sticking my elbows out has evidently caused me loads of bother in my right shoulder which is why I haven't been benching for a while now. Healing is progressing well mind you, so I may be able to get back at them early next year. I will then be holding my elbows closer to my body to see if that helps me.
 
Just my 2 cents....

Why are you doing inclined bench &amp; flat dumbells?

I simply set my bench up one notch on the incline and that's it for the bench presses.

I use to have some shoulder problems but noticed once I went with the advise from Bryan that my problems seem to dissapear.
 
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(Lol @ Dec. 21 2006,20:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Make sure your scapulae are together when you bench. Don't leave them hanging off the bench. You need to support your shoulder joints as much as possible. You should be pushing against a nice tight solid mass from your traps down your back.</div>
Can you explain a little more on how you do that? Is it just keeping a certain muscle tight during the lift? I think that and the elbows out is my main problem. I can feel my shoulder joint moving around when I lift.



FireFighter,
I just do both flat and inclined, because I really enjoy those lifts. I know it is not needed. I started just doing the slightly incilned bench, but missed doing the flat bench. It just makes me enjoy my workout more.

Thanks all for your comments. Hopefully it will save me from an injury.
 
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(davidwillis @ Dec. 22 2006,10:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Dec. 21 2006,20:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Make sure your scapulae are together when you bench. Don't leave them hanging off the bench. You need to support your shoulder joints as much as possible. You should be pushing against a nice tight solid mass from your traps down your back.</div>
Can you explain a little more on how you do that?  Is it just keeping a certain muscle tight during the lift?  </div>
Just try to squeeze the shoulder blades together when you lie down on the bench and hold them that way while you are lifting. The closer you can get them the better off you will be...and the more weight you will put up safely.
 
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(FireFighter @ Dec. 22 2006,08:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I use to have some shoulder problems but noticed once I went with the advise from Bryan that my problems seem to dissapear.</div>
Could you elaborate on &quot;the advise from Bryan&quot;? Is it posted somewhere on this site? Since I have had shoulder problems on and off since I was about 17 I'm always looking for info on how to save my shoulders from further injury.
 
You've had good advice above on several things. I'll add that most guys emphasize bench so much that they have a strength imbalance. It's good to work overhead pressing also, and to work rowing just as hard as benching. Otherwise your front deltoid is way stronger than the lateral and rear heads.

In addition, check out stevejones' post called &quot;INCREASING YOUR BENCH&quot; in the SST forum. It's really about preventing shoulder problems. Read the article that he linked about rotator cuff strength.
 
I gave these suggestions a try last night. I will need to work on keeping my elbows in, maybe I am doing it wrong but it put a lot more strain on my elbow and made it hurt (I have elbow problems). So I did them with elbows out, but squeezed the shoulder blades together. It felt kindof strange, but I did not have any noise out of my shoulder when I did it that way. At one point I think I let them slip appart, and it made a noise.

Thanks for all the help.
 
I just finished my last set of 10's, and squeezing my shoulder blades together worked great. No noises at all doing the flat, and inclined press. Although It still makes some noise doing the shoulder press. Is there a fix to that?

By the way, I have seen good gains doing the 10's. I was able to do 15 reps on every lift except curls. Even when on the 15's I wasn't able to finish a full 15 on some.
biggrin.gif
 
Are you doing shoulder presses in front or in back of your neck? If you are doing them behind your neck then do the same thing with the shoulder blades....squeeze them together as hard as you can.

And you should also make sure you stretch your internal rotators good after each workout regardless if you are doing the overhead presses in front of in back. Check out the thread on rotatro cuff problems as there is a lot of info there that will help you with your shoulder issues.
 
I am doing them in front, with dumbbells.

Is that the same thread as Lifting N Tx posted, or is that a different one you are talking about?

Thanks
 
That is not the thread I was refering to.  Although there is a lot of similar information in that thread and Steve knows what he is talking about so it is for sure worth reading.

I was refering to this thread on Rotator Cuffs.
 
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(davidwillis @ Dec. 22 2006,10:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Could you elaborate on &quot;the advise from Bryan&quot;? Is it posted somewhere on this site? Since I have had shoulder problems on and off since I was about 17 I'm always looking for info on how to save my shoulders from further injury.</div>
If it's what you enjoy, then by all means...if you aren't having fun doing it then it isn't worth it.

Bulldog:

I don't remember as it was a while ago that he stated it about doing the bench press at an angle.

I don't know what exactly was wrong with my shoulder, but it hurt do go all the way down to my chest. I began doing bench presses and only bringing the bar down until my arm was parallel with the floor.

Just my experience, but the slight incline relieved what ever was hurting my shoulder. No problems since.
 
If you are doing shoulder press with dumbells, you may be getting too much range of motion. How low are you taking them? You really don't need to lower the weight below your nose, your chin at the very lowest. Any lower puts excessive strain on the shoulders without any extra benefit. If dumbells are too rough or uncontrollable, switch to a barbell.
 
Deferring to Vagrant's post @ #2, I use two different philosophies for warmups, since I'm a bit lazy and time restricted. If you have an injury in upper body, do a leg exersize before going there, and vice-versa.
Then, before working the injured part, use a companion exersize to heat it up first, I.E., if you have pain pulling something, push something first, and vice versa. In other words, stay away from the painful spot at first, but heat the body up and then work closer and closer to it, insuring that it's totally ready to do some work. I've tried heat creams, but the numbing properties of them can fool you into missing your pain signals. Muscle soreness is a part of our life, but pain is a warning, to be heeded. I have also heard of taking a hot shower before a workout, but to me that's a waste of hot water, needing another one AFTER the workout.
 
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(vagrant @ Dec. 30 2006,00:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you are doing shoulder press with dumbells, you may be getting too much range of motion. How low are you taking them? You really don't need to lower the weight below your nose, your chin at the very lowest. Any lower puts excessive strain on the shoulders without any extra benefit. If dumbells are too rough or uncontrollable, switch to a barbell.</div>
It looks like that may have been the problem. I Have been going down as low as I can. I just tried doing them down to my noise, and didn't have any problems.

Does the same thing apply to doing the flat bench press with dumbells? I have been going low with them too. I thought it would be good to stretch a little. Since I have been holding my shoulder blades together I have not been going as low, and have not had any problems since.

I tried doing those exercises to test if I had weak exterior rotator cuff's. And don't think that is the problem, since I could do 25 lbs 10 times, and my bench is not that strong.
 
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(davidwillis @ Jan. 02 2007,15:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does the same thing apply to doing the flat bench press with dumbells? I have been going low with them too. I thought it would be good to stretch a little.</div>
I cannot answer that. I believe the benefit of DB work for the chest is more ROM. However, with the increased ROM, I would think the risk of increasing stress on the joint would also go up.

However, since I don't use DBs for chest work very often I honestly don't know.

Besides, my theory on this (for the chest) may be wrong, look at how much safer for the nees full ROM squats are vs partial (only to paralell) squats.
 
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