Interesting read. I would like your comments on this study
http://www.diva-portal.org/diva....ext.pdf
http://www.diva-portal.org/diva....ext.pdf
Interesting study about DOMS
- Thread starter Sniggel
- Start date
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(Omega_man @ Nov. 14 2006,22:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't know enough to comment on this, but it IS interesting. Could this change our view point on DOMS??? Best to wait for Fausto or Dan's input.
O</div>
Its a heck a lot to read
I have read the whole of it once before, but I should read it more to fully understand it.
Posted it here because I "think" it might contradict some of the HST science, or maybe not.
(Omega_man @ Nov. 14 2006,22:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't know enough to comment on this, but it IS interesting. Could this change our view point on DOMS??? Best to wait for Fausto or Dan's input.
O</div>
Its a heck a lot to read
I have read the whole of it once before, but I should read it more to fully understand it.
Posted it here because I "think" it might contradict some of the HST science, or maybe not.
bgates1654
New Member
My initial reading was that it supported HST science. I am gonna have to look at taht again myself.
I have not delved deep into the studies that HST have used.
But one of the basic principles of HST is that microtrauma causes repair and hypertrophy, right?
It seems from this study that microtrauma probably occurs, but the muscle repair that very quickly and when the DOMS appear the muscle seem to have strengthened itself, so DOMS can not be due to damage to the muscle (because then you would have been sore during the microtrauma), but still they have no good explanation of what DOMS is.
Ok, im not 100% sure that what I wrote was 100% accurate, and those statements (as I wrote them) are not contradicting i guess.
Ok, some speculations from my side:
If DOMS is an indication of how much growth you have got from last w/o (but I dont think it's that simple) then you should strive to get sore as often as possible.
In the FAQ Bryan recommends increasing volume if you are never sore and decrease it if you are very sore all the time. For what reason does he recommend this?
But one of the basic principles of HST is that microtrauma causes repair and hypertrophy, right?
It seems from this study that microtrauma probably occurs, but the muscle repair that very quickly and when the DOMS appear the muscle seem to have strengthened itself, so DOMS can not be due to damage to the muscle (because then you would have been sore during the microtrauma), but still they have no good explanation of what DOMS is.
Ok, im not 100% sure that what I wrote was 100% accurate, and those statements (as I wrote them) are not contradicting i guess.
Ok, some speculations from my side:
If DOMS is an indication of how much growth you have got from last w/o (but I dont think it's that simple) then you should strive to get sore as often as possible.
In the FAQ Bryan recommends increasing volume if you are never sore and decrease it if you are very sore all the time. For what reason does he recommend this?
Looks interesting to me from a quick skim read. Has Dan seen this?
As far as I understand it, DOMS is not a good indicator of muscle growth potential from a w/o. You can grow and yet not get sore much at all. Most DOMS seems to occur if you change the way in which a muscle is loaded (ie. changing exercises might cause the maximum force exerted by a muscle to be at a different length to a previous exercise) or if the bouts of exercise are infrequent enough. So you might get more DOMS if you train a muscle once a week as opposed to three or more times a week. But then there's also a link with volume. Doing the same exercise but increasing the volume will often cause some DOMS.
As far as I understand it, DOMS is not a good indicator of muscle growth potential from a w/o. You can grow and yet not get sore much at all. Most DOMS seems to occur if you change the way in which a muscle is loaded (ie. changing exercises might cause the maximum force exerted by a muscle to be at a different length to a previous exercise) or if the bouts of exercise are infrequent enough. So you might get more DOMS if you train a muscle once a week as opposed to three or more times a week. But then there's also a link with volume. Doing the same exercise but increasing the volume will often cause some DOMS.
It's actually his Doctoral dissertation and yes I've read it many many times.
Ok here's the thing, he's not saying DOMS=growth what's he's saying is when they investigated muscle during DOMS they didn't see damage they saw signs of myofibrillar remodeling. So no it doesn't paint a picture of DOMS good or bad what it does paint is that the classical idea that DOMS=damage isn't true. Secondarily it points to a time frame that this remodeling commences and which specific structures are remodeling.
Ok here's the thing, he's not saying DOMS=growth what's he's saying is when they investigated muscle during DOMS they didn't see damage they saw signs of myofibrillar remodeling. So no it doesn't paint a picture of DOMS good or bad what it does paint is that the classical idea that DOMS=damage isn't true. Secondarily it points to a time frame that this remodeling commences and which specific structures are remodeling.
Ya, wut HE said!
I've noticed that different muscles will accumulate different amounts of DOMS, from extreme to nil. My biceps have NEVER had it, regardless of how many or heavy sets I do for them. But my triceps feel some after EVERY workout.
I believe that the recommendation from Bryan (I'm not quoting here) meant DOMS in the overall sense of doing a certain amount of work. If your workout is for weenies and little girls, you're not gonna be sore anywhere or grow, either. If your workout is like the last chance on Planet Earth, you're gonna destroy your CNS.
Therefore, some random DOMS will indicate that you are working well, but not overdoing it, IMHO.
I've noticed that different muscles will accumulate different amounts of DOMS, from extreme to nil. My biceps have NEVER had it, regardless of how many or heavy sets I do for them. But my triceps feel some after EVERY workout.
I believe that the recommendation from Bryan (I'm not quoting here) meant DOMS in the overall sense of doing a certain amount of work. If your workout is for weenies and little girls, you're not gonna be sore anywhere or grow, either. If your workout is like the last chance on Planet Earth, you're gonna destroy your CNS.
Therefore, some random DOMS will indicate that you are working well, but not overdoing it, IMHO.