Is this really optimal? Ideas and Questions.

M

meatsauce

New Member
I completed my first workout of the HST program today after reviewing it enough to get the basic idea, but after reading the info again it seems I used weights that were to high for the first workout. Based on my experience today It would seem like the weights used according to the standard HST program in the first few workouts are not enough to to achieve full muscle fiber activation.

Lets say I can bench 150 for 10 reps. If I increased the weight 10lbs each workout, with six workouts per rep range I would be starting at 100 lbs for 10 reps. I wouldn't even really be that fatigued. Im not understanding how that would cause hypertrophy. I thought, at least for someone who has already been lifting weights for a while, ( I have for 10 years) that you would at least have to lift a weight heavy enough to achieve full muscle fiber recruitment in a set for it to be effective for inducing increases in strength and size.

With the weights used in todays workout I was able to complete 15 reps with about two more reps left in me until I would come to muscle failure. Then instead of doing another set I waited 10 seconds and did three more reps with the same weight and did this three times. (3 X 3) The last one was about one away from failure. These are called myo reps, correct? Would this be more effective at saving CNS energy or do the three reps defeat the purpose of the rep decrease/weight increase progression. I was thinking about using these throughout the cycle. Maybe I could do only one myo rep set per normal set, (whether that be one two or three depending on the rep range to gradually increase training volume as the program progresses), for the first two weeks then increase that to two on the next two workouts then finally three.

Right now I am thinking about running the two week 15 rep section like this:

To explain I will use close grip pulldowns as an example. Lets say for my 15 rep max is currently 150 lbs. According to the program I must start at a weight that is lower than this to progressively increase the weight while staying within a certain rep range. Lets assume I am eating right and the training is effective to increase my strength. So after two weeks 155 might be my 15RM, up 5 lbs from 150. In order to achieve enough weight to fully activate muscle fiber recruitment I would not want to start on a weight that is two low, but I also want to increase it every workout. I was thinking a increase of 2.5lbs each workout. The table would look like this base on a current 15RM of 150 and a projected 15RM of 155. That would be a 3.2% increase in strength over two weeks which seems inline with 10-15% increase in strength over the program That I remember reading about. (correct me if im wrong)[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]WORKOUT 15 REPS #[/TD]
[TD]LBS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]142.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]145[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]147.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]150[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]152.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]155[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

What is also a factor in how many reps one can achieve in a given amount of reps is how much time and effort is used for the eccentric part of the rep. More eccentric fatigue would mean that one could do less reps at a given weight. And it seems that how fast the concentric portion of the rep is would be a factor as well. I have been contracting as hard as I can because the harder you contract the more muscle fiber recruitment there is, or at least that is what I have read and what my experience tells me.

This Leads me to the question of how slow to go on the eccentric portion? I have read that this is the phase that causes the most microtrama. I remember reading Lyle or someone saying how the eccentric portion is most effective at a certain intensity, the meaning I remember is that if taken too far it is not optimal and would cause recovery time to be too long to work the muscle out again in 48 hours.

Thanks for reading I would like to hear other peoples knowledge and opinions on this.
 
First off, you aren't going to get full fiber recruitment during the 15 rep range anyway, except for perhaps the last few reps. But that is ok, because you don't need full fiber recruitment during the 15s in order to get growth. 15s are mostly meant as prep for the 10s and 5s. Now, as you already figured, myo-reps is a good way to increase fiber recruitment on subsequent reps after the first set, so if you want to use those throughout the cycle, then that is great and I would recommend it. Once you get to loads used in the 5s, you are getting full fiber recruitment through most of the set so there is no point in using myo-reps during the 5s. Just stick to standards sets or cluster or whatever.
Second... rep speed. Don't get too hung up on speed during the eccentric/concentric. Once the weight is sufficiently heavy in the 5s, you won't be able to reduce the speed of the eccentric a whole lot anyway. The important thing is to be in control of the weight and not allow gravity to complete the eccentric for you.

Your proposed layout for the 15s is fine however if you are going to use myo-reps then you don't really need to keep the loads so close together. Unless you have microplates, I wouldn't bother with 2.5 lb increments. I would stick to 5 lb increments. You can repeat loads for a couple workouts to simplify things. So for example 140, 145, 145, 150, 150, 155 would be fine. In general, loads are effective for longer than just one workout but obviously the ligher the load, the faster RBE catches up to you. So taking that a step further, once you get to heavier loads, of course they will tend to be effective for more than just a couple workouts if you really wanted to repeat them longer.

If you are going to use myo-reps during the 15s, I would set a rep target around 25 - 30 total reps (including activation set) and try to get to that each time.
 
It would seem like the weights used according to the standard HST program in the first few workouts are not enough to to achieve full muscle fiber activation.
Click to expand...

The 15's are for increasing connective tissue strength (fascia and tendons) and to allow fatigue from your previous efforts to dissipate. The 15's are not a muscle building phase. 15's need not be repeated in subsequent cycles.

This Leads me to the question of how slow to go on the eccentric portion? I have read that this is the phase that causes the most microtrama. I remember reading Lyle or someone saying how the eccentric portion is most effective at a certain intensity, the meaning I remember is that if taken too far it is not optimal and would cause recovery time to be too long to work the muscle out again in 48 hours.
Click to expand...

Lyle is known for his research and his expertise. We are certainly not trying to go crazy with eccentrics. I think you should find Lyle's eccentric recommendations and compare them to Bryan's (HST creator). I would not be surprised if they are pretty close.

-Q
 
Hey Tot and Quantum. Thanks for your replies. As far as the 15s not building muscle, I feel if the myo reps are incorporated they can. I just had a pretty good workout today increasing the weights by 5 lbs from my last workout two days ago and I felt like my strength increased a bit. For triceps extensions with the 5 lbs increase the weight actually felt lighter than last time. I'm Glad I found this. Thanks guys.

I was doing HIT Dorian Yates style and would feel completely fatigued after a workout and would just want to lay down for a couple hours. Now I feel energized.
 
I think feeling energized vs. fatigued is a good indicator of what got accomplished. If the training stress is sufficient we usually feel energized. If the stress is too much we feel like sleeping for 2 days. This can be desireable if the goal is planned overreaching or concentrated loading, but that's really advanced stuff IMO. I've done it, but it really hurts my performance at work.

Glad to see you're happy with your programming. Have a good workout.

-Q
 
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