Is this routine for a novice?

J

jmjones93

New Member
I have been training for a year but mostly messing around and it is time to get serious! I am curious I have been lurking much of this forum and would this program be good for a beginner? Over at bodybuilding.com many people advocate getting your strength to a decent level as quick as possible. So by doing SS or 5x5. I am looking to obviously gain mass as well as strength.

Here are my current lifts with 5REP MAX
Squat 190
Bench 145
Military Press 95
Stiff-legged DL 190

My true 5 rep max is honestly higher than that because I know for sure I can do at least 3 sets at each of those weights. I am 5'9 and 155lbs and I am looking to bulk to 190 possibly 200. I have my macros and nutrition down just need a solid program because I am not looking to continue to waste my time.

So should I do HST? Or should I spend more time doing a 5x5 or something similar? Thank you for your help!
 
Welcome Jonesy.

You obviously cannot gain muscular size without gaining size. However you gain size out of proprtion to strength and vice versa. HST balances both areas quite nicely in my opinion. My recomendation would be something like:

Squats (alternated with regular deadlifts)
Incline bench press (alternated with dips)
Chin ups/pull ups (alternated with seated rows or another major back movement)
Military press (alternated with shrugs and go deep and high with the shrugs and hold at the top for a few seconds)
Curls
Close grip bench press

I only add the last two because beginners typically think they must directly stimulate their arms (which they don't). Do only one set of the curls and CGBP or skip them if you want.

Do two weeks of 15 reps with 2 sets of each major exercise, 2 weeks of 10 reps with 2 or 3 sets and 2 weeks of 3 or4 sets (depending on your energy level.) Do each routine 3 times per week and increase your load each session. You can do cardio but you won't get much benefit after 20 minutes so keep that in mind.

Rest a week and start up again. You should be able to guestimate your maxes pretty close. Don't waste another week retesting them. You can probably skip a cycle of 15's if your joints are not having any problems but I like to personally always keep 1 week of 15's and then do 3 weeks of 5"s. Forget cables, light dumbell movements, pulley gadjets, pullover machines and anything that glitters or you see a female using (not meant to be a sexist remark...we just have different goals than most females.)

You said you had your diet down but I would guess you don't because I still don't have mine down pat after 55 years of lifting. Post it if you want someone to critique it. And spend your money on food not on miracle muscle products.

Good luck!

O&G :cool:
 
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Thanks for the post! But why alternate Military Press with shrugs? One is a shoulder movement and the other is a trap movement.
Could I do something like
Squat/Dead
Bench
Rows
Military Press
Chins (instead of curls)
Shrugs

My maintenance calories is roughly 2500 and so I would be bulking at first at 2850 and go from there. Macros would be 150-160g of Protein at least 80g of fat and then fill the rest of my calories with a mix of carbs proteins and fats, pretty much whatever I feel like eating that day. I bulked to 200 before but mostly gained fat because my surplus was much too large and I just lost 45 lbs due to figuring out macros.

Or maybe even instead of deadlifting just do SLDL after the Squats to hit my hamstrings and then take out the shrugs? The basic format of the routine does not even have conventional deadlifts.

So it would look like:
Squat
SLDL
Bench
Row
Press
Chins

Let me know your thoughts.
 
I would never do SLDL, especially with 5 reps. It is inviting injury to your spine. Replace them with shrugs and keep the military press in each workout. Traps make the man!!! Hamstrings do not.

Also, you don't need to do 2 upper back movements in the same workout, ie, rows and chins.

Also, doing squats and regular deads in the same workout is a killer. You do not want to fatigue your CNS, just your muscles. I suggest alternating them every other workout because they are both excellent exercises.
 
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How is SLDL inviting injury in 5 reps but regular deadlift in 5 reps is not or squat or any movement for that matter? As long as it is done properly like any exercise there should be no injury. Sorry I just do not understand that logic.
 
Also, I know that I cannot do 15 reps of dips or chins, I can probably do 5-6 rep on chins and pretty similar with dips. So what should I do for that?
 
Jonesy

Most gyms provide assistance machines for both those exercises. If you do not have access to that, you can buy various rubber bands to help with the exercises mentioned. Google power lifting or assistance bands. They are not expensive and a good investment.

As for SLDL, I don't want to really get into a discussion on the biomechanics of the exercise because I do not believe there is a correct or safe way to do the exercise, even with very little or no weight. It puts an enormous strain of the lower spine when the back is in an extended position. In a regular deadlift, you are not extending your back if you are using correct form. I would not recommend SLDL but go for it if you feel it is necessary. And, keep the weight close to your body, keep your back flexed, do not lock your knees and do not go lower than the tops of your feet. There may be some people on here who do them and can advice you better on form. I don't know. This may be one of the few exercises where wearing a belt is wise.

In fact to further protect my back, I use a shrug or deadlift bar to do my regular deads. It keeps the weight in the center of my body and not in front of it. Somewhat akin to not letting your knees go in front of your toes when doing a squat. I am not going into competitive weight lifting so true BB deadlift form is not important to me and I lift without a partner so safety is my primary concern. I cannot train if I am injured and most weight training injuries take about 3 months to fully, if ever, heal properly.

O&G :cool:
 
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O&G

I was honestly just curious and thank you for the tips. I will not be including this exercise in my routine then. So deadlifts are safer than SLDL? I know the bar you are referring to and my gym does not have one. I have heard that injury is particularly high anyway with most forms of DL. I am not going into power lifting or competitive BBing either so what would the benefit of deadlift be if injury is so high? I am just exploring these possibilities and I do not want to be out of the gym for 3 months. . . Now I know there is nothing to replace the deadlift but what would be your recommendation on exercise selection if I chose not to incorporate them?

I also should note that I have had rotatorcuff problems and did physical therapy for 2 months on it and my PT told me to generally stay away from doing dips, should I just do incline then? or alternate with a different chest movement of my choice?

Thank you for your insight and time by the way, it is truly helpful.
 
If you dont want to do DL (and I dont because I'm tall) - and there are many safe varieties out there - google Sumo deadlifts etc... consider rack pulls. They are the top half of a DL. So less stress on the spine and lower back. Also work the traps great!

I have also had rotator cuff issues for the last 10 years, and I still dip. Just very carefully and in moderation.

Its very rare on a forum to get some much advice and experience from real people, and when someone like O&G is giving advice, it is from so many years - a lifetime - of knowing what works and what doesnt! You just cant get better advice than that!

best of luck

Brix
 
Jonesy, if you cannot do dips, then I would change the incline bench to a flat bench. There is nothing wrong with regular deadlifts as long as your form is good. However, Brix's suggestion of pulls is a good one but you would still have to do squats. You can't build a mansion on stilts.
 
Brix thank you for your advice, I will look into the sumo and rack pulls. I am starting to realize by reading more of the forum that O&G is very respected and I feel somewhat special to receive so much feedback from him :). How do you do your dips carefully? Will you do dips for an entire cycle of 15s 10s and 5s?

O&G,
Of course! I would never ditch the squats. I will just stick to flat bench then and maybe consider dips after a cycle or two. And as you said I don't need to do two back exercises like Chins and Rows, but would it hurt my progress if I did? I mean I would honestly rather do some sets of chin ups or pull ups than do curls because I feel my biceps getting much stimulus from those exercises alone.

Here is my routine that I came up with, I stuck to 6 or 7 exercises:
A:
Squat
Flat BB Bench
BB Row
Press
Chins
Shrugs

B:
Squat
Rack Pull
Flat BB Bench
Pullups
Skull Crusher
Chest Supported Row(this one is iffy, but I really like rowing. If you think it really is a bad idea to keep this I will drop it. I chose chest supported to save my lower back from fatiguing too much).
Lateral Raises

If you think this would be too much volume let me know, I am trying to stick with the frequency principle making sure every muscle is hit when I workout. I would alternate with workouts A and B.
 
Absolutely. Rack pulls are great... feels like I'm being a proper athlete and lifting heavy, but dont really scorch my quads..

To me, every routine should consist of squats, chins and dips. Anything else is an addition.

I actually get more gip from my rotators from benching than I do from dips. Dips, for me, put my arms and shoulders in a less stressful, more natural alignment

Brix
 
Yes, I do machine assisted dips and chins for 15s and 10s (I am 245lb so quite heavy for dipping and chinning already, and to be progressive each workout would be difficult unassisted) I only add weight on 5s and negs.
I lean forward slightly to hit the chest more, and never over stretch in the bottom position.
Bear in mind that while I am still a mere bairn (youngster) in this game compared with the likes of O&G and Bryan, I have still been chinning and dipping for about 25yrs, so my form is very natural for me.

Hope this helps

Brix
 
Jonesy

The program you have outlined is certainly doable and better thought out than most gym goers. I think you will do fine with it.

Personally I preferr one arm DB rows over BB rows (with the knee supported on a bench) as it gives my back less grief. What you refer to as a chest supported row is what I call a seated row using a machine and I think it is a great exercise especially if you hold the last rep at your chest for a few seconds. If you prefer skull crushers over close grip bench press, just make sure you have a spotter. With the CGBP you can always use pins in a squat rack for protection.

Happy lifting!

O&G :cool:
 
O&G
Very good point, I thought it might be a lot of pressing if I kept the CGBP. I will try the CGBP after a cycle of what I have. Thank you for all your help! Maybe I should do a log on here as well.

Brix
Thank you for your help! After a cycle of this I want to try some dips, probably wont go down as far and try to lean forward a little more. I have not had problems on bench with my shoulders . . . yet. I have not had problems with dips either I was just told to stay away from them.
 
I've only heard of people having problems with rotators while dipping because they over extend in the bottom position.
I dont dip too low anymore, and havent had any problems with my rotators for a while

Brix
 
Hey OG, thanks for your advice on this thread. I am about to start my 1st HST cycle & trying to keep the amount of exercises from becoming too many. But then I worry that I'm leaving out exercises that I feel I should be doing. I've only been doing weight training for a year & a half now & been looking for a workout routine that better suits me. I like the idea of getting back to 3 x a week full body again. I'm 52, nearly 53, & as I do plenty of lifting at work I find that long workouts or too many days a week to be too draining. I hadn't thought of alternating exercises every other workout so I will give your suggestions a try.
 
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Tony, you're too old to be lifting weights. lol!

Anyway, it is not the number of exercises you perform but the quality. Stick to maybe 4 compounds and alternate if you want to and then finish off with a set of curls and something like close grip bench presses for the triceps, just because it feels good. Because you are active during work, you can't afford to get injured so stick with exercises you know you have very good form with. If you find you have to use muscles other those you intend to hit, stop and drop the weight.

Maybe someone on here has a list of on-line videos demonstrating strict form. Maybe Bryan or Totz or LOL or some of the long time injury-free lifters already have a list. If so, that would probably be a good thing to permanently afix to this website.

Good luck!

O&G :cool:
 
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