Just started ATG Squats

Bulldog

Bulldog

Active Member
I’m just starting ATG squats and I’m amazingly weak at them.  
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  As strong as I was at parallel squats (at least I thought I was parallel…but maybe not) I was very surprised at how weak I am at ATG squats.  I’m sure some of it is probably just that I’m not familiar with the lift and my form still needs some work.  And my flexibility needs some work as well.

Anyhow, my body weight is actually more than the weight on the bar that I use for my 5 rep max.  Should I include my body weight in my weight calculations (or maybe half of it) since I am lifting my body weight as well or should I just calculate based on the weight on the bar?  I guess I see it no different than weighted pull-ups which most people include their body weight when doing their calculations.  Any opinions on what would be the best way for me to calculate my weights?
 
Squats just go by the weight on the bar. Welcome to the club; I'm having to make major adjustments for freeweight squats myself, including stance and doing flexibility exersizes...well, stretching.
 
Bulldog, I had to cut my loads right down when I first started ATG squatting. What I loved though, was that my lower back felt really strong and I was able to keep my form very good for all but my toughest reps.

Now I have been doing ATG for a while I am lifting more than when I was parallel squatting. My squat PR from last cycle is for ATG at 358lbs which was about 1.7 times my bodyweight. If I can still lift that at the end of this cycle then it will be nearly 1.9 times my bodyweight. Here's hoping.

The funny thing is that now I would hate to stop at parallel. It just feels wrong. Keep working at them and you will make good progress.
 
I find when doing ATG it helps if my stance is a little bit wider. I have heard other people in the gym mutter "he's going down further than he needs too" but I don't care.
Worth sticking with I reckon though.
J
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(Bulldog @ Mar. 23 2007,14:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I’m just starting ATG squats and I’m amazingly weak at them.
mad.gif
As strong as I was at parallel squats (at least I thought I was parallel…but maybe not) I was very surprised at how weak I am at ATG squats.
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I feel your pain.

I think that it has been a bit over 6 months since I started going ATG. My upper body is reasonably strong but I've only been working very hard on my lower body since about that time. I was using mid-upper 200s for squats but I'd now call them half squats. I had to drop to the lower 100s for ATG. I've only recently gotten to where I can do a couple of sets of 5 with close to 200.

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(Bulldog @ Mar. 23 2007,14:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Anyhow, my body weight is actually more than the weight on the bar that I use for my 5 rep max. Should I include my body weight in my weight calculations (or maybe half of it) since I am lifting my body weight as well or should I just calculate based on the weight on the bar? I guess I see it no different than weighted pull-ups which most people include their body weight when doing their calculations. Any opinions on what would be the best way for me to calculate my weights?</div>

I'm going to be a bit contrarian here. I'd consider that you're really lifting 75% of your body weight plus the amount on the bar. I don't calculate with my body weight but I do think it makes sense to use somewhat larger jumps with squats than for something like bench where you're lifting very little body weight in addition to the amount on the bar. This doesn't make a lot of difference for those squatting 400lbs but for a weak squatter it can. I'll give an example:

200lb lifter, max squat 150lbs. 200 x 75% = 150 + 150 on the bar = 300 lbs equivalent resistance. Say he's lifting 125lbs on the bar. That means the effective load is 125 + 150 = 275. That's almost 92% of his 1RM. By contrast, assuming 0 body weight added for bench press (arms are only a few pounds), bench pressing 125lbs is only 83% of a 150lb 1RM. So, for squats, if you use small increments you spend a lot of time in each rep range with an effective resistance that's pretty close to your max.

I wouldn't make this overly complicated, but I'd suggest using 10-20lb increments instead of 5-10lbs, as you normally might for a relatively modest amount on the bar.
 
That is kind of what I was getting at. If I was squatting twice my body weight I wouldn't worry so much about it. But it seems like when your squat is as weak as mine is it would help to calculate the weight including at least part of your body weight since it is such a large percentage of the the weight being lifted.

I'm not sure exactally what I will do here. But I do know that I will continue the ATG squats. They feel so much better and much more exhausting that parallel squats. And they have been much kinder to my knees up to this point. I guess I will have to wait until the weights increase to see if that remains true.
 
i wouldnt worry about body wgt when calc your squat.
i wouldnt even worry that much about how much to increment the wgt up each time.
ill bet almost everyone who has responded (myself included) is guilty of adding wgt to fast (ego) to soon or compromised form (half squats, etc) in order to progress more quickly towards respectable wgt.

pick a wgt that isnt too easy but one in which you can do @15 reps with excellent form. continue with that, concentrating on form, until you notice it becomes much easier and then add some wgt (@10-20lbs) and repeat.  i wouldnt worry too much about keeping with the 15-10-5 of HST until you feel your set with form and some idea of strength/ability.

i wouldnt recommend this for any other exer. but squat is one of the most difficult exer to complete successfully (not counting the olympic moves). this is why so many folks half/parallel squat, leg press, have low back issues etc etc. imo the begining stages of learning to ATG squat should be all about proper form and technique and not about wgt used or hypertrophy, that will come once form is in place. unfortunately for most the emphasis is reversed.

a month or two (a cycle) spent working on proper form with light(er) wgts wont be impressive or grow your quads much (relative) but it will set you up nicely for the rest of your squating career.

good luck
 
Sounds like some great advice! Thanks for reminding me what is really important with this exercise right now.
 
I think in addition to what Blue said, you can consider the extra ROM, and difficulty as being equal to lifting a higher weight. So we are lifting lighter, but adapting new neural conditioning, muscle memory, and TUT in a whole new range, so comparatively, it's similar to lifting big. Good post, Blue.

You couldn't tell my legs and back otherwise.
 
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