just starting the 5's..feel i need tri work

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nastynas33

New Member
This is my 4th cycle of HST...Though its my first in over a year...And this cycle i decided to "Simplify and Win". My routine is:

Monday/Wed/Friday
Deadlift
Bench
Bent Over Rows
Military Press
Curls (every other workout)

Volume: 2 sets during 15's, 2 sets during 10's, and 3 during the 5's

This coming Monday will be my first day of the 5's and I am thinking about adding in an exercise for tri-ceps. Do you guys think I need this or no? I also see that some people think doing deadlifts three times a week is too much, is this true? And any other comments would be appreciated as my work out seems really simple compared to others on here.
 
Deadlifting 3 x weekly can be very hard on your lower back and your CNS; of course, it also depends on your relative strength levels.

With this in mind, once you reach your 5RM loads, it might be prudent to work up to just one work set of 5 with your 5RM. That way you will still be lifting heavy 3 x weekly but you will reduce the fatigue build up that would other wise occur. Attempting 3 x 5 with your 5RM, 3 x weekly, is probably going to lose it's fun factor pretty quickly. NB. This is just in relation to deads as they can be particularly fatiguing due to the heavy loads involved.

Adding extra work for your tris is perfectly fine. Just bear in mind that you will be working your tris pretty hard with bench and presses, so if your strength starts to drop off in your big lifts it will likely be due to the extra fatigue from the arm iso work. Why not alternate some tri work with your bi work and see how you get on? Curls one session and tri extensions (or whatever you fancy) the next.
 
i'm currently in my late 10s and deadlifting 3 times a week, no problems. You'll have to see how you feel, it might become a bit much later on, and i'm planning to lower it to twice a week in the later 5s.

You have a fairly similar exercise layout than mine, but yeah you have to ask yourself, why should i add isos? if you see they are not growing, especially around the late 10s/early 5s, you could definitely add something (or even get the dips in there ;) )

one thing also worth mentioning, i think absolutely everyone should continually take their MEASUREMENTS, they are an awesome way to keep proper track of growth along with your bodyweight. I'm taking mine once a month, and i can easily track what's growing, what's not, and then make the adjustments.
if you feel you need tri work as a result of them not growing, then isos will add a bit more volume and strain and possibly get growth goin. You have to take measurements! They're so handy
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Since you aren't doing shrugs, you might just be able to get away with 3d (and 3 sets) of DL's (depending on how much weight you handle in this and the other exercises).

If you decide to add something for tri's though, be careful.

I've been doing the "extended range" skull crushers (I only do these during the 5's) and have found them very taxing (I'm at about 120lbs with them at the moment).  Very effect, but very taxing.

They bring a lot more of the upper body into play than you might think.

That might tip the scale a bit and you'll find your CNS overwhelmed.

The problem is, once it's worn out (CNS), you'll be fighting it till the end of the 5's

I've been wrestling with how to handle this to some degree myself.

I've reached some PR's, esp with squats and I've had a very tough time in the 5's of late.

I started to change to 2 sets instead of 3 (along the lines of LOL's thinking) but I didn't follow through this time and had to stop a week early.

I was worn out and getting too much muscle inflamation.

I'm usually pretty 'worked out' after the first two weeks of the 5's, but lately the last two have been like running uphill with a car tied to my back.

The big difference is curls and skull crushers. This adds an additional 15 reps per exercise (3x5) along with weight increasing in other exercises.  

It's best to err on the side of less CNS fatigue than more.
 
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(adb1x1 @ Jun. 30 2008,6:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've been doing the &quot;extended range&quot; skull crushers (I only do these during the 5's) and have found them very taxing</div>
Are you saying that you ADD arm isolations in the 5s?  I thought that if adjustements were made here it would typically be to drop the isolations, as the heavier weights tend to work the upper arms well enough -- plus the fatigue and over-training issues.

Of course, everybody is different.
 
Yes, I only do curls and skull crushers during the 5's.

This has actually worked pretty well (added 2 full inches to my upper arm). Seems to stave off RBE, but it does add additional work during the 5's.

This hasn't been an issue until the last 3 cycles or so. As the weights have gone up on other exercises, the overall impact is becoming much greater, so I will have to adjust.

I suspect I could sustain the gains I've made without doing any arm work, but as long as I'm making progress, I don't want to completely stop arm iso's yet.
 
Thanks for the replies.

In my first two work outs of my 5's I cut the deadlifts down to one work set. I also am alternating a bicep exersize (barbell curls) with a tricep exercise (overhead tri extensions) every workout.

Since i started this cycle ive gained 4-5 lbs and was able to go past my rep maxes on most of the exercises in the 10's and 15's. Good stuff.
 
Also, ive been thinking about what to do for the two weeks after the two weeks of 5's. I have an idea that will allow to me to evaluate my progression and obtain my rep maxes for the next cycle...

My 7th and 8th weeks would consist of six workouts, Mon Wed Fri each week:


Monday - sub max 15 reps
Wednesday - 15 rep max
Fri - sub max 10 rep

Monday - 10 rep max
Wednesday - 5 rep sub max
Friday - 5 rep max

So basically ill be re-doing my two workouts from each rep range, and the last workout will be at my max (and since ive gained strenght over this cycle, the weights will be a little above what I did for the rep range max workouts two and four weeks ago)

This will allow me to obtain my rep maxes for the next cycle and continue growing. Good idea?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So basically ill be re-doing my two workouts from each rep range, and the last workout will be at my max (and since ive gained strenght over this cycle, the weights will be a little above what I did for the rep range max workouts two and four weeks ago)</div>

You could save that for your 9th and 10th weeks.

For weeks 7 and 8 just keep the 5s going. What a lot of us do is to use the time after the 5s to build up to new 5RMs wherever possible. I always feel that if I am progressing well at the end of the 5s that it's a good idea to keep on going until I plateau (or my strength starts to drop off from the frequent heavy work) or my joints tell me it's time for a break.

Backing off a little at the start of each further week of 5s and then building up again during the week can be a good idea if you are feeling fatigued. Another useful technique is to switch to sets of 3 reps with your 5RM loads. So instead of 3 sets of 5 reps you'd do 5 sets of 3 reps. That's my new favourite.

If you are weak on things like dips and chins consider doing negatives with extra weight for two weeks for those two exercises; they really lend themselves to negs. Use a load that would be around your 2RM.

Have fun!
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<div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 01 2008,9:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I should have explained that.


Almost like a pullover exercise with more emphasis on the triceps.</div>
man that looks tough...

you find you get better results with that?
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 03 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 01 2008,9:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I should have explained that.


Almost like a pullover exercise with more emphasis on the triceps.</div>
man that looks tough...

you find you get better results with that?</div>
Very much so.

It really emphasizes the stretch.

I do it a little slower than the guy in the demo tho, esp the eccentric part of the exercise (lowering).

I think there's a bit too much momentum going on in the demo.
 
<div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 03 2008,12:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 03 2008,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 01 2008,9:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I should have explained that.


Almost like a pullover exercise with more emphasis on the triceps.</div>
man that looks tough...

you find you get better results with that?</div>
Very much so.</div>
Very interesting.  I recently finished a cycle utilizing pullovers for lats and noticed the nice effect they had on my triceps.  This will surely emphasize the tri's more with what would seem to be some additional involvement from chest and lats.  More of a compound exercise this way.  Thanks for the tip.
 
Heavy dips are kinder on my elbows and build tri's quite nicely, then you can add some variety, for some reason I enjoy suppersetting with a post exahust type of modality.

say Dips + Pull downs without rest or Overhead cable extensions, but they too can be kinda hard on the joints!
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<div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 01 2008,9:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This one extends the range at the bottom of the movement, providing greater stretch to the triceps:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBLyingTriExt.html</div>
That's my Max-Stim skull crusher. I am able to rest the bar on the bench behind my head during my M-time.

Thus I get to move a bit more weight for a lot more reps than I could otherwise.
 
<div>
(adb1x1 @ Jul. 01 2008,9:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I should have explained that.


http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBLyingTriExt.html

Almost like a pullover exercise with more emphasis on the triceps.</div>
this is one of the best movements ive found for inner tricep developement,however i use an alternating grip with dumbells i find the wrist position better. stick these with some close grip bench or dips and you have a winning combination.
 
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