Load for rotation exercises?

C

cricardoc

New Member
Hello People,

Don't bother with the weights and load increments in next example, my intention is just to understand the right principle. So, assume that in next 2 exercises my 15´s microcycle will be:

- Seated Over Row - 25 - 30 - 35 - 40 - 45 - 50
- One Arm Dumbbell Row - 25 - 30 - 40 - 45 - 50

Now, I want to rotate these exercises, doing only one of them each workout. If I didn't rotate, increments would be 5 in 5 Kg. Fine. But with rotation I'll need to increment 10 in 10. right?

1 2 3 4 5 6
SOR 25 OADR 30 SOR 35 OADR 40 SOR 45 OADR 50

Otherwise, by end of the 2 weeks I will not be reaching my 15's Max. Another question is that I will be doing the 15's max in only one of the exercises...

I'm I thinking correctly? Help please

Tks
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=64><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-RIGHT: black" class=xl63 height=15 width=64></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
You can do it that way or you can just do 40 - 45 - 50, or whatever. It doesn't really matter that much as long as you are progressing over the course of the cycle.
 
For which exercise? For both? Don't forget I'm rotating and dont want to come back in load when hiting the nuscles.
 
Don't worry about that. Just program the progression for each lift separately. It doesn't matter if they work the same muscles. If you are flat benching 200 you don't have to worry if your incline bench is less than that, for example. The lifts do not put tension on the muscles in exactly the same way so you progress them differently. As long as you are progressing in each lift, you are fine.
 
When doing different exercises on a split workout I prefer to increment them separately since the odds that they will both have the same weight at the same time are very low.

So assuming you are doing A B A B A B over two weeks that only give you 3 increments per exercise. So just find the difference between the starting weight and the rep-max or whatever you plan to end with for each exercise and divide it into 3 increments for each exercise.

You could also extend the micro cycle to 4 weeks and use six increments like is normally recommended. Remember the number of increments and the number of weeks recommended are just guidelines. As Totentanz says what matters is that you are progressing over the course of the cycle.

From my understanding of what I’ve read here the most important part of this is the difference between the beginning and ending weight. After that is making each increment large enough that you’re muscle is given enough stimulus to adapt. Once you’ve met those two goal how many increments doesn’t really matter unless you are time constrained and need to finish in a certain number of weeks. Remember many people don’t stop progressing in each rep range (15, 10, 5) until the actually max out in that rep range. Odds are that your rep max will be greater when you get to the end of each micro-cycle than it was when you calculated it at the beginning.
 
Tks People! I will probably not increase the cycles original number of weeks and will increase independently as you suggest, unless yous guys think there's a good reason to extend...

Tks again
 
Well, after thinking a little more about this, I wonder if you could advise me if I should rotate in the first place. Would it really be beneficial, or should I choose one and go with it till the end?

Pull-ups / Chin-ups
Leg Press / Leg Curl
One Arm DB Row / Elevated Cable Row
Lateral Raises / Front Raises
EZ Bar Curls / Seated Zottman Curls

Another doubt is this: As you say, different exercises hit muscles in different ways. With rotating am I hiting the muscle - at least some areas of it - only every 4 days, going against HST rule of 48 hours?

Tks again and, by the way, sorry for so many dumn questions...
 
Doing exercises that hit a muscle at a slightly different angle during a split is still in most cases going to hit the muscle enough overall to fulfill the frequency principle of HST. So in your example about the following work well as parts of a split routine:

Pull-Ups /Chin-Ups
One Arm DB Row / Elevated Cable Row
EZ Bar Curls / Seated Zottman Curls

The Leg Press / Leg Curl hit completely different muscles so should be done each workout. IMO the Lateral Raises and Front Raises are dissimilar enough that they should also be done each workout.

48 hours is not an absolute rule for HST. Based on post workout protein synthesis in the muscles, every 36 hours might be even better than 48. The frequency principle dictates that the more often you can load the muscle with sufficient stimulus for growth and still recover the more you can potentially gain. That’s one reason that for most of my cycle I work most muscles every 24 hours. Another reason is that working out more often may improve nutrient partitioning. And also just because I like working out every day.

So while loading a muscle 3 times a week is recommended it’s not absolute, though it‘s not a bad minimum to shoot for. If you start doing it less than that you are moving away from maximizing the benefits of training frequency but even 3 times a week may not be optimal if you can handle more.

I think the best thing you can do when just starting out HST is to keep it simple. Try to stick mostly to compound exercises and don’t try to get to fancy. Most of my last cycle consisted of one push, one pull and one leg compound movement each workout. It doesn’t get much more simple than that and I made both substantial size and strength gains. If you aren’t use to working out each muscle 3 times a week already that in itself may take some getting use to. If you haven’t already read through Fausto’s “Simplify and Win” thread:

http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?16246-Simplify-and-Win!

In my first two cycles I tried to adhere to this until I got to know how my body would respond the lower volume increased frequency workouts. As I’ve progressed I’ve started changing things up to adapt HST to how my body responds and also to my lifestyle.
 
grunt11 said:
48 hours is not an absolute rule for HST. Based on post workout protein synthesis in the muscles, every 36 hours might be even better than 48. The frequency principle dictates that the more often you can load the muscle with sufficient stimulus for growth and still recover the more you can potentially gain. That’s one reason that for most of my cycle I work most muscles every 24 hours. Another reason is that working out more often may improve nutrient partitioning. And also just because I like working out every day.

So while loading a muscle 3 times a week is recommended it’s not absolute, though it‘s not a bad minimum to shoot for. If you start doing it less than that you are moving away from maximizing the benefits of training frequency but even 3 times a week may not be optimal if you can handle more.
Click to expand...
I agree with Totz that 48 hours is more guideline than a hard and fast rule. Thus he works out nearly every day, while I usually prefer to rest a day (or two) between workouts. Dan Moore has posted studies that show there may not be a lot of difference between working out twice weekly and thrice weekly.

And yeah, check out Fausto's "Simplify and Win" thread. It may change your view of exercise selection.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top