Max-Stim Question

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dr_janitor

New Member
About a week ago I asked for some advice on pull ups and received some awesome advice, max stim.

I read the book on the max stim website and noticed that in the sample workout, there were no rows for back, only wide grip pull ups and narrow grip pull ups.

I'm in my first week of 10's and have done 1 workout already. I alternate rows and pull ups. I did rows on Monday, and I was planning on trying max stim to improve my pull ups, tomorrow I'm going to do wide grip pull ups.

Should I replace rows with narrow grip pull ups? Or should I just stick with alternating rows and pull ups and just alternate the type of pull up ie wide grip and narrow grip.

Thanks again for the help. I'm really enjoying my first HST cycle and my fiancee has noticed quite a difference too!
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Im not Max-stim expert at all.

So take my advice with a grain of salt...or better yet ask Scientific muscle he can help you.

But I would think MAX-Stim would want you to stick with one exercise and try to progess at that once exercise. I am sure 2 or 3 exercises is okay...but my thinking is along the lines of neural learning and keeping it simple with one exercise.
 
This is from Dan's Max-stim site....He recommends alternating exercise and BOTH rows and pullups each workout.  Dan, I hope you don't mind me printing this here.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Work Out A
Follow the Exercise order, thigh and calf work may be put last if you prefer
Thighs-
Squat or Leg Press
Super set with Leg Ext or Sissy Squat (if desired)
Leg Curl
Super Set with SLDL or Good Morning (if desired)
Calves-
Standing Calve Raise
Superset with Donkey Calve Raise on Blocks (if desired)
Back-
Wide Grip Pronated Pull Up/Down
Bent BB Row to Bottom of Rib Cage or similar
Chest-
Flat Bench BB/Dips or DB Bench Press
Superset with Fly (if desired)
Shoulder-
Military Press or Shoulder DB Press
Superset with DB Incline Lateral Raise (if desired)
Traps, Rear Deltoid-
BB Laying Chin Row or Seated High Row
Superset with Prone or Bent Shoulder Lateral (if desired)

Workout B
Thigh-
Squat or Leg Press
Super set with Leg Ext or Sissy Squat (if desired)
Leg Curl
Super Set with SLDL or Good Morning (if desired)
Calves-
Standing Calve Raise
Superset with Donkey Calve Raise on Blocks (if desired)
Back-
Narrow Grip Supinated Pull Up/Down
Bent BB Row narrow grip to beltline
Chest-
20 Degree BB or DB Bench Press
Superset with Incline Fly (if desired)
Shoulder-
Primary-Upright Row
Secondary-Superset with Upright Lateral Raise (if desired)
Traps, Rear Deltoid-
DB or BB Shrugs Seated or Standing
Superset with Laying or Bent Shoulder Lateral (if desired)

If knees, shoulders or back is of concern then substitution of exercises can be done as long as plane of movement and degree of stretch is relatively equal for the substitutions. Whether done on free weight or machine should not make a difference. Machines will make this program inherently easier as the racking movement is already accommodated for in most machines. When substituting exercises always keep safety as your top priority.</div>
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 20 2007,22:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan, I hope you don't mind me printing this here.</div>
Not a problem, I'm not BDJ
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My previous 7 workouts, I've been alternating rows and pull downs.

Is it okay to now do both pull ups and rows on the same day?  That won't mess up my cycle will it?

I'd just have to adjust my increments for row correct?

Instead of doing 2 sets each, maybe just 1 set each?

Thanks again, you guys are a huge help!
 
I have to ask how are you doing your rows? Are you pulling to the chest, hitting the upper back or leaning forward and hitting the lats? Makes a difference. No sense in hitting the lats twice in a workout.
 
Personally, I believe it is more of how you position your hands. With an underhanded grip, you are basically doing a similar motion to pullups/chinups/pulldowns, overhand grip seems to hit the lats a lot less for me. I always pull to navel regardless of which grip I use. Does pulling to the chest do anything differently?
 
Well, yes, assuming that we aren't talking about underhanded grip in rows. Who does that? (I personally haven't seen that, maybe you have)
If you consider the movement of the humerus bone, sitting up requires the upper back muscles to pull it back if the elbows are raised. When leaning forward (which I think is a useless way to hit lats) the humerus is pulling in a downward arc, somewhat like doing a pullup while leaning slightly backward, depending on the height of the pulley.
If you sit up straight and pull to the stomach, rather than the chest, the lats will be more involved and you'll use less upper back and traps. See, it all depends on what you want to develop the most. They're all correct, but different.
My point is that there are ways to position the trunk of the body to acheive different muscle usage. And of course you can always do rows like the noobies, leaning way forward and pulling with the lower back while pulling with the arms...which is a compound, but I think somewhat ineffective.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Feb. 21 2007,12:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does pulling to the chest do anything differently?</div>
It changes the moment arm.

Overall it makes little difference as once the loads are sufficiently heavy all synergists are recruited. Changing the moment arm only changes which are primary movers, stabilizers, synergists.

The only reason I have two different pulling motions is to ensure that the back is well worked and in balance with pushing movements. It's hard to see our backs and sometimes this get's overlooked or rather it's assumed it's developing along the same lines as the more visible body parts (not always true).
 
I do seated rows and I tend to pull to just under my chest.

I know in Dan's sample workout, he recommended 1 set each. I was thinking of doing 1 set of max stim pull ups. Then doing rows at whatever weight I'm supposed to do that day. For the next workout, do 1 set of max stim chin ups followed by rows at increased weight.

Seen as I only have 3 increments for rows, I'll have to double them up to stretch it to 6 workouts.

Does doing this make any sense?
 
Tot,

Does it really matter for you?

I mean come on!

Your back looks like a road map already so whatever you are doing you are doing it correctly!
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Dan, correct me if I'm wrong and I'll gladly take a slice of humble pie. You said:
&quot;Overall it makes little difference as once the loads are sufficiently heavy all synergists are recruited.&quot;
Having done some experimentation with rows myself in the past, and using DOMS as a measure (I know, don't give me the lecture!) I found that there is, yes, some crossover from the two most pronounced pulls, I.E. upright to the chest, and leaning forward and pulling to the midsection...BUT, there was a pronounced difference in results (DOMS) between the traps and rhomboids doing upright high pulls and the lats doing bentover rows.
So it appears to me that your statement is true, but how much the primary movers are used is quite different from one method to the other. I assume this is why you use two exersizes, and perhaps as well to hit all the stabilizers.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 21 2007,16:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So it appears to me that your statement is true, but how much the primary movers are used is quite different from one method to the other. I assume this is why you use two exersizes, and perhaps as well to hit all the stabilizers.</div>
Quad,

Absolutely but I was referring too Tots comment on the difference between to the chest or to the belt. It's not really that this amount of change is significant except generally to the beltline changes your upper arm angle and begins to more closely resemble extension rather than transverse.

So to the chest is a matter of where to the chest are we talking about, will you really see much of a difference if rowing to the bottom of the sternum vs beltline, IMOO no. How about to the clavicle vs. beltline, well yes I do agree.
 
Quad

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Who does that? (I personally haven't seen that, maybe you have)</div>

There's even an endearing term for it Yates rows.
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Haha, Faus, I'm sure if I stood on my head and tried to touch my toes there would be people doing it and have a name for it!
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