May I throw away biceps and triceps exercises?

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by imported_dziewul, Aug 6, 2005.

  1. Helo everybody.
    I'm from Poland.
    Sorry for my english.

    May I throw away biceps and triceps exercises from my HST workout?
    Of course I add additional sets to my chest and back exercises like chin-up and more Barbell Bench Press.
    I think it is good idea because after good SD my biceps and triceps will work hard enough. Will they?

    My workout would looks like this:

    1. Barbell Bench Press incline x3.
    2. chin-up x3.
    3. Barbell Bench Press x3.
    4. Bent Over Barbell Row x3.
    5. Barbell Military Press x3.

    As can You see I use only compound exercises.
    Are my biceps and triceps working hard enough using this workout?
    What to add or throw away?
    I can't do dips and use machines. I train in home.
    Of course I would like to have big biceps and triceps but I think it is unnecessary to train this muscles in HST.
    Am I right or wrong?
     
  2. savagebeast

    savagebeast New Member

    Yeah, it's fine to cut out isolation exercises for biceps and triceps. Some people find that those muscles actually grow better without the isolation exercises. In my opinion, dziewul, you are wise beyond your posts for suggesting this. Usually it's the other way around, with people wanting to throw in loads of isolation movements and forgetting that compound movements should comprise the core of their routine.
     
  3. I agree with You.
    I think people do to much isolation exercises because they have bad habits from their old workouts (split).
    In HST You don't need to do a lot of exercises to grow.

    I'm doing now this workout and I will see.

    HST is not a workout HST is a collection of rules.

    OK thank You for Your reply.
     
  4. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I fancy dips more than presses for hitting triceps, but that's in the details [​IMG]

    I agree that compounds are better for bis&tris, the only time I use isolation exercises is for forearms, calves, or a loaded stretch in the last week of my whole cycle.
     
  5. Dips are the best for triceps but I can't do them.
    I'm training in my home.
    So You don't do any extra exercises for Your biseps and triceps except compound movements?

    Can You tell me something about Your volume? How meny sets are You doing?
    What do You thing about pullovers?
     
  6. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    dziewul

    I admire your courage! Most of us have a hard time giving up the isolation work, I might trry it for my next cycle and see! :D

    Your workout seems fine, maybe adjust one of the bench presses to close grip press for triceps, and alternate your chins, close underhand grip (bicep involvement)/wide overhand grip (some tricep and delt invlovement).

    As for the rest you good to go! [​IMG]

    Let us know your progress!
     
  7. 9to5lifter

    9to5lifter New Member

    I tend to agree that most isolation work is probably "a bad habit" due to our lifting background (high volume and split routines). However, I too have a hard time throwing out isolation exercises, even though sometimes I feel I don't need them. Maybe I'll try a cycle without isolation exercises and see how it goes. By the way, is there anyone who is doing this on a regular basis? What are your experiences with abbreviated routines?
     
  8. Lance

    Lance New Member

    Onemorerep was doing a compound only routine. He put up pics, looking very solid too.
     
  9. Yeah, sounds like OMR really enjoys the abbreviated workouts and has made solid progress doing 'em. I'm going to give it shot on my next cycle--alternating two workouts of four or five basic compound movements six times a week. Hoping my arms will gain along with my chest and back on dips, bent-over rows, and pull-ups. I'm excited to see how it goes.
     
  10. addy

    addy New Member

    i did no direct work for arms for quite a while, and got nothing out of it. of course it's all subjective, but some people (like me) need the direct arm work while others grow just fine without.
     
  11. Joe G

    Joe G New Member

    Unlike most of the guys on the post I wouldn't suggest leaving out isolation exercises. Although you might as well try it and see for yourself. I think its interesting how most guys don't want to perform the isolation exercises, I really enjoy them while I'm in the gym and feel as though they make my arms grow more than anything.

    O and I guess you have already noticed your not doin any leg work? I don't know what kind of bench press you have but some of the bench presses allow you to squat off the back of it. I dunno just a thought.

    Let us know how those arms grow, or dont grow.

    Joe G
     
  12. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    Keep us updated. I am very interested to see how the routine works or does not work?
     
  13. Ok.
    I will tell You when I finish this workout.
    Now after second training I think that I don't feel my arms enough. But maybe it is only ilusion.
    After my old workout (with exercises for bic and tric) my arms were huge. Now they aren't [​IMG].
    Mayby I should add 1 set of biceps and triceps exercises?
    I'm curious about what Bryan think about training in this way.

    What a pity I don't know english enough to easy speak with You.
    I have problems to tell everything what I want.

    Thanks for Your reply.

    Paul
     
  14. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Isolation exercises definitely give you a great pump @ the gym, no doubt about that. But they won't expose your bis&tris to loads greater than during the compounds.

    If you want more work then trying hanging-chins and hanging dips (but know your limits on what your shoulders can take here).

    Also I've found that my joints feel better without the isolation exercises. I've never had problems with injury, but they def. don't feel as sore as I'm approaching the end of my cycle.
     
  15. Chthonian

    Chthonian New Member

    I would guess it also depends on a person's form with certain exercises. If you bench with your elbows tucked and close to your sides, you'll utilize your triceps more than someone who uses a much wider (and also much more dangerous) style of benching. This could be why some try dropping isolation exercises and wind up losing size. The thing is, though, if they stuck with compounds only for long enough, their arms would grow to their old size again, and beyond. The reason for the initial loss of mass could be due to the lack of glycogen stored in the muscle after it has been targeted more directly with isolation movements.

    People also tend to train their arms more than necessary, and wind up with arms ahead of their torsos, though sometimes only slightly. This leads to the illusion of the arms lacking with only compounds, due to the fact that the torso and core muscles are growing more quickly at first, due to lack of effort placed upon them in the first place.

    A bit of a rant, and nothing with studies backing it - just my general observations.
     
  16. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I think isolations are great for getting metabolic work in those muscles. Curls, for instance, are about the only thing that give me a good burn in my biceps after doing a bunch of heavy lifting.
     
  17. Chthonian

    Chthonian New Member

    In the sense of metabolic work, then yes, isolation exercises are useful. I agree that I'll never feel a burn in my biceps from heavy parallel rows or weighted chinups. Then again, I only train in the 3-5 rep range for the time being, so I don't get a burn anywhere.
     
  18. I stay with compound movements longer and I see what will happen.
     
  19. the_dark_master

    the_dark_master New Member

    *Rant
    Dude, where's the beef - No Squats, no deads; this is a typical girly/mens health routine that Newbies think can short circuit years of good hard training and produce slabs of muscle. Pound to a pinch of shite - I bet you aint eatin' enough either... Real compounds will kick your arse into gear and you'll start growing all-over. Too many people new to HST see it as the holy grail to easy, lighter workouts; when the truth is there is no substitute for arse to the grass HARD WORK.

    One golden rule for beginners of HST: Whole body routines (in 24hr period)

    YOU AINT DOIN' HST

    end of rant*
     
  20. Chthonian

    Chthonian New Member

    Squats and deads are not necessary to build the physique many desire. I am an advocate of them, but they're not the only route one can take.

    HST isn't a shortcut, by any means. The dedication and hard work still has to be put in. If it's not, the results are just as nominal as any other program. On the other hand, work hard, and you'll get some nice results, but not without putting something in first.

    HST isn't just a whole body routine in a 24 hour period. Learn a bit more before you start ranting.
     

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