Mid Cycle SD OK?

tocamjapan

New Member
Currently doing twice a day routine, 3 days per week. On reaching the second week of the 5's, I started to notice increasing levels of fatigue, and decreasing strength levels to the point where I couldn't get my previous weights up for even one rep. (Yes, I did the 15s this time around, and they were great) It seems like I was getting great strength increases and now I have started going backwards...

I figured it was pointless to go into the negatives/5s phase of the program feeling so fatigued and weak. Would a week long SD be a good idea before resuming the negatives/5s?

Thanks.
 
I would stop, SD and then start a new cycle. You could miss out the 15s if you feel your joints are all still fine and go straight into 10s (or just do one week of 15s).

It sounds like your volume during 5s may be just too much right now. What do you think? How many sets have you been doing per exercise? How many exercises? Are you cutting or bulking? Diet can make a big difference to how you feel on training days.
 
Thanks for the reply Lol.

I missed the 15s last time, but when I added them in this time, I got a couple of pounds of growth, and enjoyed a really full feeling in my muscles all the time - so I was really impressed with the 15s. (that and my joints ARE starting to scream as a result of the very fast poundage increases I have experienced)

With my program I do one set per exercise, except for calves where I will do 2 sets.

Morning

Trap bar squats
Stiff Legged Deadlifts
Dumbbell Bench
Barbell Rows
Seated Row
Standing Calf Raises


Afternoon

Squats
Leg Curls
Chins
Dips
Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Seated Calf Raises


I'm finished within 12-15 minutes, so I'm not wasting a lot of time in the gym. I stretch for 10-15 minutes after the workout.

Meals. Eating a lot. Noticing a slight fat gain. Pre and post workout shakes and some creatine. Trying to bulk. Started out at 53. Currently at 68kg. Target is 75kg.

You still think I should reset and start from scratch again. Or SD for 7-10 and then barrell through the 5s/negs for two weeks and then SD again?

I'm just confused as to why I am hitting this sticking point each cycle where my weights start to decrease...
 
I'm really not sure what to make of this.
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You seem to have made really good gains (15kgs) with little fat gain. How many cycles has this taken?

So you are doing one set for each exercise during 15s, 10s and 5s in both am. and pm. sessions?

If this is the case then it may be that you are just not doing enough work once you are past 15s. During 15s you will be doing 30 reps per training day for, say, chest, but when you get to 5s you will only only be doing 10 reps. Whilst the loads will be higher during the 5s, if you do the math you will probably find that you are doing less work - possibly a fair bit less. So once you reach 5s you may want to check this and try doing two sets per exercise am. and one pm. or vice versa.

However, I still find it hard to understand why your strength is dropping off. Your workouts are very short so you shouldn't be running out of energy. Is the drop off happening in both morning and evening sessions? Is it true for all your exercises or just one or two?

As an aside, checking your routine which looks like a good one, I would drop one of the rowing movements in your morning w/o and perhaps do another delt exercise (rear delts maybe?) instead or do barbrll presses.

How intense are your stretching sessions? I'm just wondering if this may be impacting on your strength recovery? I'm sure I've read about stretching impacting on strength but can't remember where. Maybe someone else here can help with this?
 
This is my 3rd cycle, but the first one was more an experiment, and I wasn't doing everything properly.

Yes, I am doing just the one set for both the AM and PM sessions. I thought about the "lack of work" issue during the 5s compared to the 15s, but last cycle I was adding in a back off set of 12-15 reps at the end of the 5s to compensate for this, and I thought doing this might have been causing my strength to go down, so I ditched it for this cycle.

The strength drop offs generally occur on the 5th workout of the 5s. I notice that I start to involuntarily hit failure during my sets, and that I can't achieve my targets for the day. By the sixth workout , I notice that my weights go down on both the AM and PM workouts.

I've also noticed that during the 5s my libido drops (no morning "wood" as someone described in another thread)

My stretching isn't that intense. I have postural problems, so my stretches are a combination of full body and specific neck/scap stretches prescribed by my physio.

Just to give you an indication of a typical days eating for me on a workout day. On a non workout day I just take out the shakes, but keep the rest about the same. I rotate my food choices so I am never eating the same food/protein more than twice a week.

Pre workout
Half a dextrose/maltodextrose carb shake
Half a protein shake

Post workout
The other half of the shake

One hour later

3 baked potatos
2 bananas
350gms of meat (chicken, turkey, fish)

3 hours later

300gms of meat
vegetables
1 baked potato

3 hours later

1 cup of nuts (almonds, brazil nuts, walnuts)
1 banana

Pre workout
Half a dextrose/maltodextrose carb shake
Half a protein shake

Post workout
The other half of the shake

One hour later

2 baked potatos
2 bananas
350gms of meat (chicken, turkey, fish)

3 hours later

LARGE serving of veges (a head of brocoli, a whole spinach)
Tin of sardines or two.
Orange.


Cheers for your help so far Lol.
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I took 7 days off, and have just finished training. Even though I took a weeks rest, my weights are down again! I dropped 2-3 reps on all exercises and had to lower the weight on others.

I don't understand what's going on.
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have your testosterone levels checked.
maybe you have overestemated your 5s maxes.
or you could try doing 2 sets in one workout then you have the rest of the day to recover.
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One other option, drop the AM workout and see what happens.

Obviously then increase the amount of work slightly in your resulting workout! Stick to 30 minutes of a good variety and avoid squats and deads on the same day of course!

If this does not work, you need to have your blood work checked as per Faz, check testosetrone levels and other indicators.

Here's an article I downloaded from Will Brinks website, maybe not necessary to do all these tests (they will cost a small fortune), but at least the major hormones:

Testosterone
Free testosterone
IGF-1 Estradiol
DHEA/DHEA-s
Full thyroid panel
 
Sounds like you could be getting close to ovetraining.

I would stop SD, check my volume next cycle and you will be good to go!
 
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