Mixing reps and cutiing back 5's/negs

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SameOldSameOld

New Member
i've done some searching for this but cannot find a definite answer.
I am thinking of skipping 15's next cycle and was wondering if it is ok to mix up rep ranges. For smaller muscle groups such as biceps would it be ok to do 12,7, and keep 10,5 for chest, legs etc.
Also can you just do 1 week of the 5's in the negatives/additional 2weeks of 5, instead of 2 weeks and then SD as normal? would this make difference?

One more thing guys. I want to improve my Cardio fitness as I am out of shape CV wise. I am thinking of starting out just for a few minutes after my HST session and then increasing up to about 20-30 mins. I'll be doing boxing most likely- heavy bag, shadow boxing etc. Reckon this will be ok. Cheers folks.
 
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(SameOldSameOld @ Sep. 14 2007,12:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'll be doing boxing most likely- heavy bag, shadow boxing etc.</div>
I boxed several days a week during my first coupla HST cycles and still got good results.
 
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(Avi1985 @ Sep. 14 2007,16:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Boxing 20-30 minuts sounds crazy. After few minutes i cant bread.</div>
Are you a baker?
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what's your motivation to skip the 15's and truncate the 5's? those are the hardest parts of the cycle (imo).

cardio your proposing isn't extreme to the point that it would negate your gains...

...and I don't see a problem w/ using different rep ranges for your isos. personally, I do an ab video in the AM and don't feel it detracts from my HST cycle in the least.
 
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(Totentanz @ Sep. 15 2007,08:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Is there a specific reason why you don't want to do 5s for as long?</div>
well I just wondered if it would make a difference. For example, my 5 rep max for bench was 200lbs before I started. Then I get to the 200lbs mark on the last session of the 5 cycle. I then did a further 2 weeks of the 5's insted of the negatives as I train alone. I just wonderd if it would make much difference if I just did 1 week. I kept the weight at the 200lb for the aditional 2 weeks and did not feel like I could of added too much more to the bar, maybe 5lbs.
 
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(fearfactory @ Sep. 15 2007,08:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">what's your motivation to skip the 15's and truncate the 5's? those are the hardest parts of the cycle (imo).

cardio your proposing isn't extreme to the point that it would negate your gains...

...and I don't see a problem w/ using different rep ranges for your isos. personally, I do an ab video in the AM and don't feel it detracts from my HST cycle in the least.</div>
Well I don't feel any joint pains or aches so I thought I would just give a go at a shorter cycle without the 15's. See if there was any difference, neg or pos.
The 5's I answered above. Tried to quote you and Totentanz in the same reply but could not figure how to do it.
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Thanks for opinions on the cardio.
 
Okay. Well, mixing up rep ranges is fine. Skipping 15s isn't a big deal, though older folks don't seem to fair as well when they skip 15s. Not sure what age bracket you are in. I almost never do 15s when I am doing HST. That shouldn't hurt your progress at all.
So what you are proposing is doing the 5s as normal, then one additional week with your 5 RM/negs, right? Which would cut your cycle down to only about 5 weeks.
Well, in theory, longer cycles would be more productive but they are also more prone to interruptions or anything else that could break the cycle. So... I think a shorter cycle would be fine. Honestly though, if I were going to do such a short cycle, I would scrap the 10s too. Just do 5s, start out at 80% of your 5 RM, quickly ramp up to your max over the course of a couple weeks, then hammer at your 5 RMs for the rest of the cycle. Keep your iso's and assistance exercises in the 8-10 rep range like you were talking about.

What lifts were you going to use?
 
In my opinion you'd get further doing a dedicated 10x3 cycle for 4-6 weeks between SD's. I would use the simplify and win mindset , picking 4-6 basic compounds , use a A/B movement split and hit 4 brief (but intense) w/o's a week - 2x each movement:

(EXAMPLE)-


MONDAY
Flat bench 10x3
Military press 10x3
squat 10x3

TUESDAY
BB ROW 10x3
UPRIGHT ROW 10x3
DEADLIFT 10x3

WEDNESDAY
off

THURSDAY
(repeat monday)

FRIDAY
(reapeat tuesday)

SATURDAY
off

SUNDAY
off


                 This will give you the best of all worlds - strength , size , fatigue management - all geared towards slightly shorter cycles. Start all loads for all movements around 80% 1RM , and progress the load WEEKLY (not every w/o) - 5-8 lbs.(10 if your feeling frisky). This will keep your w/o's very short , CNS drain is minimal considering the intensity(%age of 1RM) , while not as sustainable ( from both the cycle length and long-term ie. &quot;multiple cycle view&quot;), IMHO and experience this is far superior for strength/size gains to &quot;cookie cutter&quot; HST , it's really a question of it's &quot;fit&quot; with a lifters temperament , HST is rather &quot;easy&quot; as routines go and manages to be &quot;effective&quot; , contrast this with 10x3 being &quot;harder&quot; yet &quot;more effective&quot; and you can see how different dynamics ( personality, age, joint condition ect.) would come into play .
                    The wisest use would be to cycle it in between HST cycles . But from what you are describing as your current thoughts - this would be a re-freshing , shockingly effective alternative to just slugging away at 5's . As an aside , it is my opinion that a lifter who did 2-3 cycles of 10x3 while using HST the rest of the year will have dramatically different gains than one who HSTed straight thru the year.
                     Just a suggestion...
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(Totentanz @ Sep. 16 2007,08:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
Yes that was what I meant
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Lifts-Bench, overhead press, chins, rows, squat, deadlift,Bb curl,skullcrushers. I like the sound of your idea. I will have to figure out what is next for me. I'm also going to look into Russ' idea. I am 23 by the way. Thanks very much.
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Russ,
When you say cycle between HSt what do you mean. Do a HST cycle then SD then do a cycle of 10x3 then SD, back to HSt and so forth?
Thanks for the samople workout. I like the idea of it- not too many lifts in one workout, which saves me setting up diferent apparatus
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So using Bench as an example. My 1 rep max would be, according to a calculator, about 225- probably abit less I'd say, but just use 225. So 80% is 180. But when I tested my maxes before my HSt cycle my 10 rep max was only 170. It may have gone up a bit now. What I am saying is the first week would be heavier than I can do. Unles I have confused myself? Any idea
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(SameOldSameOld @ Sep. 16 2007,10:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When you say cycle between HSt what do you mean. Do a HST cycle then SD then do a cycle of 10x3 then SD, back to HSt and so forth?</div>


You could do that , but what I was suggesting was simply using 10x3 about 2-3 times throughout the year as a &quot;booster&quot; to HST. I think more lifters would find this &quot;acceptable&quot; without compromising thier &quot;HSTness&quot; , Alternated cycle to cycle ,(HST/10x3/HST/10x3 ect. ect.) would be very effective - many already do this with 5x5/HST and claim superior results. 10x3 would be &quot;better&quot; in the sense that it contrasts HST more than a 5x5 , and for the fact that it enables higher %age loads at volume. For your situation I was suggesting it as a &quot;one time booster&quot; for now , after using it for a cycle you could consider adding it as a permanent tool in your arsenal depending on how well it &quot;fit&quot; you and your lifestyle.



<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So using Bench as an example. My 1 rep max would be, according to a calculator, about 225- probably abit less I'd say, but just use 225. So 80% is 180. But when I tested my maxes before my HSt cycle my 10 rep max was only 170. It may have gone up a bit now. What I am saying is the first week would be heavier than I can do. Unles I have confused myself? Any idea
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I believe (based on the info you've provided) that 180 lbs. would be easier than you may think to do triples with - but starting at 75% woul be best as opposed to starting at 180 and being forced to do 8x3 for instance due to &quot;failure&quot; . The starting weight is not absolutely vital - starting just below 80% will not detract from the cycle . As an alternative using a weight that you can do 6 PERFECT reps before form suffers is acceptable as a starting weight if 80%1RM is too difficult to calculate precisely.
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Russ, I think I got it the wrong way round. do you mean 10 sets of 3 reps?
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That would make more sense

would I be aiming to improve my poundages at the end of the cycle? by how much? Also what about the failure factor? Sorry for all the quesions but I like to get the info when I'm on a roll. Do you have a link that gives the details on this routine. I get confused with all the info I read. Thanks much appreciated.
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(colby2152 @ Sep. 14 2007,08:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Avi1985 @ Sep. 14 2007,16:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Boxing 20-30 minuts sounds crazy. After few minutes i cant bread.</div>
Are you a baker?
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Its pretty tough.

Try doing it for 4 rounds your first night in the &quot;ghetto&quot;...cardio was and understatement!
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I don't know much about baking though???
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