More workout days with subsequent cycles...?

W

wungun

Member
We all know how hard it can be to pump thru those 15's after a good, relaxing SD.
I'm only just now into my 5's on my second HST cycle...but still loving the results!

I think my next cycle, I'm going to pick up at the exact same weight I started with on my previous cycle...this cycle I managed 5-10lbs increase across the board.
But what I'm going to do differently is, instead of starting every rep range (every cycle) with slightly more weight, I'm just going to continue adding more workout days, and subsequently slightly more weight, to each rep cycle, and work deeper for the continued progression.

I think this has a couple of HST specific benefits, if not more...
After your SD, you're not dying 6 reps into your 15 rep lifts.
With added workout days (7 or 8 or 9 per rep range), your muscles are seeing a broader spread of progression, from min to max per rep range...a very important key in HST!
As you are constantly upping your maxes every cycle, the more workout your joints and tendons are getting, to help prep for the heavy ****, especially in the 15's.

I'm going to do this next cycle, and subsequent cycles...when I reach 3 weeks of 15, 10, and 5's, then I will start my next cycle with a slightly higher min., and do it all over again.

Thoughts?
 
In General:

Extending the 15's? Not a good idea except if you need rehab. Little hypertrophic benefit.

Extending the 10's? Perhaps. I have not tried it. RBE may come into play pretty quickly.

Extending the 5's? Very good idea if your joints, etc are in good shape. RBE is not a big factor.

Starting with same weight? A neutral idea but make sure your max weight is higher than the previous cycle.
 
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wungun said:
Can someone explain "repeated bout effect"?
Click to expand...

do a search, there are already hundreds of pages written about this, so it is a bit redundant to write it all over again. Type it in google, or even here on the HST forum search.
 
I searched...and found only quoted studies.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for hypertrophy, we want to induce muscle "damage" to trigger muscle growth, correct?
I don't understand how implementing a program like I mentioned in my initial post would trigger muscle "protection" (no growth) or RBE...
If, overall, thru each rep range period, I am eventually putting a higher RM on my lifts, would I not be still avoiding RBE?
My "theory" to starting a new cycle and starting at the same weight as the precious cycle, but adding more workout days to "reach" a higher RM, is to subject the muscle to a larger progression of weight, yet be sure that you can lift for the required reps...especially when starting 15's after a good SD.

I dunno about everyone else, but myself, and I know others here as well, have experienced noticeable growth in the 15's and 10's.

I wouldn't discount 15's at all for growth...
Sure, if all you did was mindlessly pump away with the same 15RM weight for weeks, the benefits would surely dissipate.
But the progressive loading using HST principles obviously work, whether you're using 20 reps or 3 reps...so long as you're steadily increasing the load.

Is there any evidence showing that if you're rep cycle is 7 or 8 exercise days instead of always 6, that its detrimental?
 
Wungun

HST is a compromise of many things to attempt to come up with a universal set of principles that will fit the general population. Nothing is laid in stone. Try your program and see how it works for you. My muscles do not respond to repeated high reps. Maybe your's will.

I do not strictly follow HST. I find I respond, hypertrophy wise, best to 10 and lower reps followed by post exhaustion high reps (15-20) as a "finishing" exercise. However, I still usually do a week of 15's because they are intended to prepare the joints for heavier weights and that seems to work for me. I would venture to say that all the veterans on this site have added their own "tweaks" to the HST basic principles after experimenting to find what works best for them. All we can say when you ask a question is to see if it follows the general guidelines that Bryan laid out for HST because we cannot possibly know how you will personally respond to anything. Go for it and report back as we are all looking for the next "tweak."

I modified my original answer to address this.

O&G :cool:
 
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The problem with "growth" in the 15s is that it is largely sarcoplasmic, not true myofibrillar hypertrophy. The growth may seem to "stick" due to the fact that you experience true growth during the 10s and 5s which fills in the space taken by the fluid increases during the 15s. Does this mean that 15s are useless? No, but you won't be seeing huge amounts of actual growth during the 15s, just increased fluid storage. So increasing the length of the 15s is not the best idea unless you are nursing an injury. Lengthening the 10s can work, but as the guys said, RBE is always a concern. The longer you work with a certain weight, the more the muscle becomes resistant to it, and the lower the load you are using, the closer to RBE you will be since there is always a bottom floor that is the minimal load you must use to overcome RBE. This minimal load will be relative to your conditioning so unfortunately there isn't a hard rule about it. In general, 60% of your 1 RM for a lift should be good, but it really depends on you. If you've been lifting heavy for months on end, then your muscles will be conditioned to those loads and 60% of your 1 RM will probably not work.

So all that said... extend the 10s if you will but do not do this my adding more increments. Instead, you would be better off doing this by repeated increments once. That way you can start with a load that is high enough, draw out the progression and thereby extend the 10s. I wouldn't go more than four weeks with the 10s though. If you take your normal 2 week layout and just use each increment twice instead of just once, that gives you four weeks.

Extending the 5s is a no brainer. By this point the loads will be heavy enough that you should be able to use a particular load for at least a few workouts before you need to increase it, and when you get to your 5 RM, you should be able to use that load for a couple weeks before RBE becomes anything like a concern. You could go so far as to use each increment during the 5s for an entire week, drawing the 5s out to six weeks in length, then once you hit your 5 RMs, continue incrementing further each week, using the new loads for a week or so, and eventually you will not be able to increment further. Those numbers will be your new 5 RMs. As long as you are eating enough, you should be able to keep the 5s going for a two to three months before you plateau. You will likely hit your new max in each lift on different days too, keep in mind. As an example, nativetroutbum did the 5s for about 10 weeks and made some huge strength gains during that time. Check out his log if you want to see this in practice.

I would suggest adding in metabolic work during the 5s to ensure you are getting erk 1/2 signalling and if you wish to get the sarcoplasmic benefits of the 15s.
 
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