My HST Routine - Plz Critique..
- Thread starter LCUK
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imported_etothepii
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It doesn't appear that the image has loaded up correctly.
I can see the chart OK so it seems the issue is fixed now.
Answers to a few questions would be very helpful:
1) Age?
2) Height & weight?
3) Approx bodyfat %age?
3) Time spent training to date?
A few observations:
1) Looking at the loads there are definitely some strange things going on. (ie. There is a bit of an imbalance in certain areas.) For example, your figures for squats are less than bent-over rows and incline presses. Your figure for deads is lower than for your squats. This points to you needing to level things up a bit.
2) Lots of exercises! At this stage it's probably best to focus on core strength and basic compounds. I think if you check Fausto's thread here you will find lots of helpful tips.
I would usually leave some zig-zagging in, but in this case I think what you have will be fine.
Even though I don't know the answers to my questions above I can't stress enough how important it is to work on basic compounds first and foremost until you can squat and dead 2 x bodyweight and bench 1.5 times b/w.
Answers to a few questions would be very helpful:
1) Age?
2) Height & weight?
3) Approx bodyfat %age?
3) Time spent training to date?
A few observations:
1) Looking at the loads there are definitely some strange things going on. (ie. There is a bit of an imbalance in certain areas.) For example, your figures for squats are less than bent-over rows and incline presses. Your figure for deads is lower than for your squats. This points to you needing to level things up a bit.
2) Lots of exercises! At this stage it's probably best to focus on core strength and basic compounds. I think if you check Fausto's thread here you will find lots of helpful tips.
I would usually leave some zig-zagging in, but in this case I think what you have will be fine.
Even though I don't know the answers to my questions above I can't stress enough how important it is to work on basic compounds first and foremost until you can squat and dead 2 x bodyweight and bench 1.5 times b/w.
Peak_Power
New Member
Perhaps you mean 30kgs on each side for squats? So a total of 60kgs?
OK. Thanks for the info. Being new to squats and deads means that you should/will make rapid progress (if you eat right). I actually think that because the weights are light in these two exercises you will be able to get away with doing more exercises right now. However, as your strength increases in these big lifts you will be well advised to alternate deads and squats (at least during 5s).
Just out of interest, I just wondered why you have chosen Romanian deads over normal deads? If it is to hit your hammies more you could always do Stiff-Legged Deadlifts (not on a platform). During 15s and 10s they make a good combo with squats but the two together may well get too much for your lowerback during 5s. That's where alternating comes in.
I reckon somewhere between 45-60 reps per exercise per week is plenty for anybody (natural) doing an HST based workout. I know it will mean dropping the volume somewhat but give it a try first. Make a few notes at the end of 15s so you have a good idea whether your RM guesses were accurate. Then you can decide whether to add 5/10lbs for next cycle or not.
As you gain strength you will be able to have more increments during your cycles but I think your progression is fine at the moment.
All the best.
Just out of interest, I just wondered why you have chosen Romanian deads over normal deads? If it is to hit your hammies more you could always do Stiff-Legged Deadlifts (not on a platform). During 15s and 10s they make a good combo with squats but the two together may well get too much for your lowerback during 5s. That's where alternating comes in.
I reckon somewhere between 45-60 reps per exercise per week is plenty for anybody (natural) doing an HST based workout. I know it will mean dropping the volume somewhat but give it a try first. Make a few notes at the end of 15s so you have a good idea whether your RM guesses were accurate. Then you can decide whether to add 5/10lbs for next cycle or not.
As you gain strength you will be able to have more increments during your cycles but I think your progression is fine at the moment.
All the best.
the_dark_master
New Member
You're over complicating things... Don't try integrating CW/HST without trying a "vanilla" HST cycle ie a basic compounds only balls to the wall 6-8 weeks of solid workouts.
Printout your cycle, and note after each workout how it went/felt, points to watch for regards form etc.
Use this together with your results (size wise/weight/BF%/mirror) to learn from this primer cycle.
If you implement the big four - (along with bullet-proofing accessory lifts (ext rotations etc)) then you will develop a balanced foundation on which to build, whereas if you use isolations from the get-go, you are probably going to introduce muscle imbalances, which can affect lifting longevity/form in the long run.
When you can squat 2xBW, bench 1.5xBW, OHP BW - then start to introduce isolations and bring up any lagging parts.
Printout your cycle, and note after each workout how it went/felt, points to watch for regards form etc.
Use this together with your results (size wise/weight/BF%/mirror) to learn from this primer cycle.
If you implement the big four - (along with bullet-proofing accessory lifts (ext rotations etc)) then you will develop a balanced foundation on which to build, whereas if you use isolations from the get-go, you are probably going to introduce muscle imbalances, which can affect lifting longevity/form in the long run.
When you can squat 2xBW, bench 1.5xBW, OHP BW - then start to introduce isolations and bring up any lagging parts.
Fausto
HST Expert
LC
Welcome aboard!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, the extra isolations should help improve my strength even further so I get better at the big compound moves anyway, right? </div>
Wrong...they will rob your strength for the bigger compounds, we prefer to recommend straight compounds until your strength is up to par!
Adding to what Dark Master is saying, once you try a compounds only routine you'll see the wisdom.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm very into balanced workouts, so doing just squat or just DL is going to leave the quad/hams unbalanced (unless they're full squats).</div>
We defintely suggest you do only Oly squats, I used to be of that school too
but full squats is where its at, try them, you will not regret it...oh...and please... hang you ego at the door!
Welcome aboard!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, the extra isolations should help improve my strength even further so I get better at the big compound moves anyway, right? </div>
Wrong...they will rob your strength for the bigger compounds, we prefer to recommend straight compounds until your strength is up to par!
Adding to what Dark Master is saying, once you try a compounds only routine you'll see the wisdom.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm very into balanced workouts, so doing just squat or just DL is going to leave the quad/hams unbalanced (unless they're full squats).</div>
We defintely suggest you do only Oly squats, I used to be of that school too
LC: No harm in doing what Bryan suggests at all. Don't forget though that a lot of water has gone under the bridge since that was originally written and a lot of folks have provided their experience from starting out that way and how they do things now. I started out with 11 exercises for my first cycle but dropped it right down to 6 after that and alternated exercises. It was just too much during the 5s and post-5s and now it is manageable.
Always ATG squats unless you have a good reason for not doing them this way (other than, "It's really hard!"
).
Squatting with twice your bodyweight in this fashion is not easy and may take you a few years to attain particularly as your bodyweight will be increasing if you stick at this and have a good eating plan.
When I started out I was 165lbs at 5'10", so quite similar to yourself. Now, almost a year on, I can ATG squat with 315lbs but my bodyweight has gone up to 213lbs so I still have a way to go. Maybe this time next year I will get there? Oh, just measured my upper arms last night and they have hit 17" from 14.75" a year ago. I do very little iso work (usually on off-days and usually with my home dbs that are now too light) so this is mainly down to all the upper-body compounds.
I really think it is a good idea to switch to normal deads during the 5s instead of RDLs or SLDLs and then to alternate with squats once they get too heavy to manage in the same workout. Your lower-back will let you know when that is.
Always ATG squats unless you have a good reason for not doing them this way (other than, "It's really hard!"
Squatting with twice your bodyweight in this fashion is not easy and may take you a few years to attain particularly as your bodyweight will be increasing if you stick at this and have a good eating plan.
When I started out I was 165lbs at 5'10", so quite similar to yourself. Now, almost a year on, I can ATG squat with 315lbs but my bodyweight has gone up to 213lbs so I still have a way to go. Maybe this time next year I will get there? Oh, just measured my upper arms last night and they have hit 17" from 14.75" a year ago. I do very little iso work (usually on off-days and usually with my home dbs that are now too light) so this is mainly down to all the upper-body compounds.
I really think it is a good idea to switch to normal deads during the 5s instead of RDLs or SLDLs and then to alternate with squats once they get too heavy to manage in the same workout. Your lower-back will let you know when that is.
Fausto
HST Expert
LC
The ego part was meant for the ATG squats, they require that one hangs the ego at the door, as if you not used to them they will humble you and you will start with some meagre loads, believe me I have been there, butthey are wrth every bit.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I TOTALLY hear what you're saying about how compounds are important and I'm getting them in, but like originally prescribed, I'm adding isolations as well.</div>
You see...LC...we have tested and tried...I for one did Vanilla style for more than two years, till I started realizing that to simplify is indeed to win...while at the same time to use some serious poundage...its just that the vanilla program is a kinda one size fits all type program, and will end up not being suitable to all after all due to our inherent differences!
You can go right ahead and do like you planned, we are not here to dick...tate
but rather to enhance
Cheers mate
The ego part was meant for the ATG squats, they require that one hangs the ego at the door, as if you not used to them they will humble you and you will start with some meagre loads, believe me I have been there, butthey are wrth every bit.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I TOTALLY hear what you're saying about how compounds are important and I'm getting them in, but like originally prescribed, I'm adding isolations as well.</div>
You see...LC...we have tested and tried...I for one did Vanilla style for more than two years, till I started realizing that to simplify is indeed to win...while at the same time to use some serious poundage...its just that the vanilla program is a kinda one size fits all type program, and will end up not being suitable to all after all due to our inherent differences!
You can go right ahead and do like you planned, we are not here to dick...tate
Cheers mate
<div>
(LCUK @ Sep. 22 2006,15:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One other thing... the deadlift debate. I don't enjoy conventioal deadlifts that much but love Romanian Deadlifts. I think its because you don't drop the weight ... just feels better. Anyway, do you think doing RDL as opposed to conventional ones could hinder my progress in anyway? mainly because conventional ones hit the whole of your back/traps etc. whereas RDLs don't. Is the difference minimal in terms of stimulating muscle growth (providing diets tip-top of course)?</div>
I don't think anybody enjoys doing deadlifts!
They are one of the most important all-over body exercises though. There's not a lot that doesn't get worked to some degree if you include all the prime movers, synergists and stabilisers involved. They are definitely one of the top mass builders.
You will be able to use higher loads than you can with RDLs or SLDLs. That's why it is quite a good idea to switch over to doing them during the 5s so you can really push the loads up. Just be sure to work on your form before tackling anything heavy and don't try and push the loads up until you are confident to do so. You shouldn't be dropping the weight, always lower under control. This is an exercise, not a competition.
Deloading after each rep (ie. putting the weight back down and letting go of the bar, which is the "correct" way to do deads) is partly why they are so tough to do. Say you just managed 5 reps with 400lbs, deloading after each rep, that would mean that you could probably do 420lbs for 5 reps without deloading. But, whichever way you do them, they are hard as heck during the 5s.
Oh, yes, HST for a whole year in mid October.
(LCUK @ Sep. 22 2006,15:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One other thing... the deadlift debate. I don't enjoy conventioal deadlifts that much but love Romanian Deadlifts. I think its because you don't drop the weight ... just feels better. Anyway, do you think doing RDL as opposed to conventional ones could hinder my progress in anyway? mainly because conventional ones hit the whole of your back/traps etc. whereas RDLs don't. Is the difference minimal in terms of stimulating muscle growth (providing diets tip-top of course)?</div>
I don't think anybody enjoys doing deadlifts!
You will be able to use higher loads than you can with RDLs or SLDLs. That's why it is quite a good idea to switch over to doing them during the 5s so you can really push the loads up. Just be sure to work on your form before tackling anything heavy and don't try and push the loads up until you are confident to do so. You shouldn't be dropping the weight, always lower under control. This is an exercise, not a competition.
Deloading after each rep (ie. putting the weight back down and letting go of the bar, which is the "correct" way to do deads) is partly why they are so tough to do. Say you just managed 5 reps with 400lbs, deloading after each rep, that would mean that you could probably do 420lbs for 5 reps without deloading. But, whichever way you do them, they are hard as heck during the 5s.
Oh, yes, HST for a whole year in mid October.
scientific muscle
New Member
<div>
(Lol @ Sep. 22 2006,09:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When I started out I was 165lbs at 5'10", so quite similar to yourself. Now, almost a year on, I can ATG squat with 315lbs but my bodyweight has gone up to 213lbs so I still have a way to go. Maybe this time next year I will get there? Oh, just measured my upper arms last night and they have hit 17" from 14.75" a year ago. I do very little iso work (usually on off-days and usually with my home dbs that are now too light) so this is mainly down to all the upper-body compounds.</div>
17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!
Don't worry if you think you are not big enough yet, or not cut enough yet...hardly anybody feels like they are perfect. I am just a newby to HST and I posted my pathetic pics! 17" arms is nothing ot be shy about.
(Lol @ Sep. 22 2006,09:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When I started out I was 165lbs at 5'10", so quite similar to yourself. Now, almost a year on, I can ATG squat with 315lbs but my bodyweight has gone up to 213lbs so I still have a way to go. Maybe this time next year I will get there? Oh, just measured my upper arms last night and they have hit 17" from 14.75" a year ago. I do very little iso work (usually on off-days and usually with my home dbs that are now too light) so this is mainly down to all the upper-body compounds.</div>
17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!
Don't worry if you think you are not big enough yet, or not cut enough yet...hardly anybody feels like they are perfect. I am just a newby to HST and I posted my pathetic pics! 17" arms is nothing ot be shy about.
Failure is OK once in a while. It can help with strength gains. But how you define failure is the important thing. My definition has come to be when my form drops off and my rep speed slows significantly. Then I stop. I could probably manage another rep if I had a loaded gun pressed to my temple.
When you reach your RM w/os you will probably find that your strength has gone up a bit which is good. It may have gone up enough such that you can get two sets with your recorded 10RM or three with your recorded 5RM without actually reaching failure or you may find that you reach failure on the second set. If you have managed all your reps there is no need to do more reps to force failure. That's not the point. Load progression and increasing work done is the point. If you don't make your second or third sets just cluster the reps to get to your target.
So, failure doesn't hurt if it happens once in a while. This is where zig-zagging can be a help as it allows a bit of a rest for your CNS following RM w/os. As you know, your muscles can recover much more quickly than your CNS so managing fatigue well is a primary concern with HST, hence the RM w/os being infrequent.
When you reach your RM w/os you will probably find that your strength has gone up a bit which is good. It may have gone up enough such that you can get two sets with your recorded 10RM or three with your recorded 5RM without actually reaching failure or you may find that you reach failure on the second set. If you have managed all your reps there is no need to do more reps to force failure. That's not the point. Load progression and increasing work done is the point. If you don't make your second or third sets just cluster the reps to get to your target.
So, failure doesn't hurt if it happens once in a while. This is where zig-zagging can be a help as it allows a bit of a rest for your CNS following RM w/os. As you know, your muscles can recover much more quickly than your CNS so managing fatigue well is a primary concern with HST, hence the RM w/os being infrequent.
Lifting N Tx
New Member
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Sep. 22 2006,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!</div>
Yeah, very impressive results!
If no pics, an update to the results thread where newbies are likely to see it would be a good encourager.
(scientific muscle @ Sep. 22 2006,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!</div>
Yeah, very impressive results!
If no pics, an update to the results thread where newbies are likely to see it would be a good encourager.
<div>
(Lifting N Tx @ Sep. 22 2006,23:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Sep. 22 2006,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!</div>
Yeah, very impressive results!
If no pics, an update to the results thread where newbies are likely to see it would be a good encourager.</div>
Thanks for the encouragement guys! Well, I plan to do so along with a bit of a run down of the last year. On checking my logs it turns out that I have until 7th November until my first year of HST is completed. That's good because I still have to attain my last goal for this year which is 400lbs in my deads.
So, not long now and then I'll put my results up and maybe muster up the courage to do the pics.
(Lifting N Tx @ Sep. 22 2006,23:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Sep. 22 2006,11:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">17" arms!!! Up to 213lb.s from 165 lb.s!!!
Man, stop being shy and post some pics, Lol!</div>
Yeah, very impressive results!
If no pics, an update to the results thread where newbies are likely to see it would be a good encourager.</div>
Thanks for the encouragement guys! Well, I plan to do so along with a bit of a run down of the last year. On checking my logs it turns out that I have until 7th November until my first year of HST is completed. That's good because I still have to attain my last goal for this year which is 400lbs in my deads.
So, not long now and then I'll put my results up and maybe muster up the courage to do the pics.
Yeah, so if you are doing multiple sets of your RM load, the first set you should get without too much of a problem (if you recorded your maxes correctly). It will only be on subsequent sets that you may have to re-rack the weight before you get all the reps. Once your form drops off or the rep speed drops significantly, stop, take a breather, then finish the reps.