My own modified HST cycle - opinions wanted

Stefan

New Member
Hi everyone,

For practical reasons, I would like to try a HST cycle where you only alternate between your 12RM and 5RM. This would look something like:

Week 1: 12RM-10KG
Week 2: 12RM-5KG
Week 3: 12RM
Week 4: 5RM-10KG
Week 5: 5RM-5KG
Week 6: 5RM

Now, what I'm thinking about is extending the whole cycle and using the same weights for, say, two weeks, instead of one, making it look something like this:

Week 1: 12RM-10KG
Week 2: 12RM-10KG

Week 3: 12RM-5KG
Week 4: 12RM-5KG

Week 5: 12RM
Week 6: 12RM

Week 7: 5RM-10KG
Week 8: 5RM-10KG

Week 9: 5RM-5KG
Week 10: 5RM-5KG

Week 11: 5RM
Week 12: 5RM

The only thing that concerns me is that the difference in weight between the two last weeks of 12RM and the first two weeks of 5's has to be quite big, I'm not sure if this will be a factor though. What are your opinions?
smile.gif
 
Can I ask you why? Not bashing you or anything, I am just curious what is the point in doing that instead of the regular vanilla HST cycle, 15, 10, 5 with progressing weights.
 
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(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,10:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Can I ask you why? Not bashing you or anything, I am just curious what is the point in doing that instead of the regular vanilla HST cycle, 15, 10, 5 with progressing weights.</div>
No offence taken
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I just find it kind of awkward using such small increments and I've never felt that 15's benefit me in any way. Also, using 12 and 5 RM's guarantees that there is no zig zagging so it's mainly a practical issue.

But, more importantly, do you think it will work?
 
As long as HST principals are in play it will work. I am not sure what you mean by Week 1: 12RM-10KG. Are you doing full body workout 3x a week and you'll be using your 12RM minus 10Kg every one of the 3 days on that week? It is best to progressively increase the weight in smaller amounts so that you have a constant progressive load increase that is ideal for growth.

The 15s have their uses by acclimating the muscles and joints after a SD and flushing lactic acid to the muscles. They are usually not the rep range where you'll grow the most nor they will have much influence in your overall strength, but as I said they have their uses. There is nothing wrong with 12s tho. I would personally use 12s, 8s and 5s then so that there isn't a big gap between the weights. Many people skip the 15s and go directly to 10s then 5s.

Answering your question, I think it would work and I don't think the big jump in weights from the end of the 12s to the start of the 5s is a problem although you could drop the starting weight of the 5s (to around 70% of the 5RM) so there is more room for steady load progression. Although you find small increments awkward that's the one thing I would suggest: increase weight every workout, lower starting weight if needed and use small increments if necessary.

Good luck.
 
Hi Stefan,

Electric beat me to it but here are some of my thoughts:

HST is mainly about load progression along with a training frequency that will keep the hypertrophic stimulus high.

So, all you have to do to set up an effective cycle is to pick a starting weight (one that allows you to get say 15 or so reps, which is a common place to start following SD) and then work up to a heavier weight over a certain number of workouts. You can repeat loads along the way but bear in mind that the lighter the load, the more quickly your body will adapt to the stimulus; the hypertrophic response will be reduced on each subsequent workout until RBE catches up and you stop growing.

The 15,10,5 set up is recommended because it allows for a decent cycle length, helps with fatigue management (esp. if you have zig-zag between mesocycles) and has an initial two weeks of 15s where lactic acid production can help prep your joints for the heavier workouts to come. Of course, it is perfectly fine to reduce the load range if that's what you want to do.

When you mentioned that you are having to use &quot;such small increments&quot; you made wonder what exercises you were using? Sticking to compounds using a barbell will usually allow you a greater loading range than isos using dumbbells. If you only have access to dumbbells then I understand that it can be more difficult to work out a load progression.

It's perfectly fine to repeat workouts so, as an example, say for squats your 5RM was 120kg, you could easily do something like this:

SD

Week 1: 90, 90, 95

Week 2: 95, 95, 100

Week 3: 100, 100, 105

Week 4: 105, 105, 110

Week 5: 110, 110, 115

Week 6: 115, 115, 120

Week 7: 120, 115, 120*

Week 8: 120, 115, 125*†

SD

That's effectively one mesocycle spread out over 8 weeks. During Week 1 you could probably manage 10 or so reps with 90. As the cycle progressed you would reduce reps according to load. you would just have to be careful  not to train too close to failure each time or your strength would drop off as fatigue accumulated.

* For Weeks 7 &amp; 8 you would be working at your previous 5RM loads so they would be hard and heavy sessions. Notice I've reduced the load mid-week to allow for a bit of recovery before a further push on the Friday session. The other way to get around fatigue build up would be to drop to sets of 3 reps with your 5RM loads.

† at the end of a cycle it's always fun to see if you can improve on your previous 5RM and carry that over to next cycle.

Try to keep your rep count about the same over the cycle. So if you started at 2 sets of 10 reps you would want to finish up your cycle with 3 or 4 sets of 5 reps, or perhaps 6 sets of 3 reps. Obviously, if you go to failure on the first set you are unlikely to get all your reps in on the next set, so you would need to cluster reps up to your target.

Hope that helps.
 
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(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,10:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As long as HST principals are in play it will work. I am not sure what you mean by Week 1: 12RM-10KG. Are you doing full body workout 3x a week and you'll be using your 12RM minus 10Kg every one of the 3 days on that week? It is best to progressively increase the weight in smaller amounts so that you have a constant progressive load increase that is ideal for growth.

The 15s have their uses by acclimating the muscles and joints after a SD and flushing lactic acid to the muscles. They are usually not the rep range where you'll grow the most nor they will have much influence in your overall strength, but as I said they have their uses. There is nothing wrong with 12s tho. I would personally use 12s, 8s and 5s then so that there isn't a big gap between the weights. Many people skip the 15s and go directly to 10s then 5s.

Answering your question, I think it would work and I don't think the big jump in weights from the end of the 12s to the start of the 5s is a problem although you could drop the starting weight of the 5s (to around 70% of the 5RM) so there is more room for steady load progression. Although you find small increments awkward that's the one thing I would suggest: increase weight every workout, lower starting weight if needed and use small increments if necessary.

Good luck.</div>
That's right, Your interpretation of &quot;12RM-10 Kg&quot; is bang on: Full body workouts, 3x a week with a weight 10 Kg below the 12RM. One idea I have would be to stick with that weight, i.e 12RM-10KG, for the entire first week and do two sets per exercise. Then, on the second week, using the same weight, I'd do three sets instead, thus increasing the total volume.

Anyway, I think you made a good point in regards to the need for steady progression. I'm kind of drawn, though, to the simplicity of using the same weights for two straight weeks, albeit with different amount of sets.
tounge.gif
 
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(Lol @ Jul. 08 2008,11:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi Stefan,

Electric beat me to it but here are some of my thoughts:

HST is mainly about load progression along with a training frequency that will keep the hypertrophic stimulus high.

So, all you have to do to set up an effective cycle is to pick a starting weight (one that allows you to get say 15 or so reps, which is a common place to start following SD) and then work up to a heavier weight over a certain number of workouts. You can repeat loads along the way but bear in mind that the lighter the load, the more quickly your body will adapt to the stimulus; the hypertrophic response will be reduced on each subsequent workout until RBE catches up and you stop growing.

The 15,10,5 set up is recommended because it allows for a decent cycle length, helps with fatigue management (esp. if you have zig-zag between mesocycles) and has an initial two weeks of 15s where lactic acid production can help prep your joints for the heavier workouts to come. Of course, it is perfectly fine to reduce the load range if that's what you want to do.

When you mentioned that you are having to use &quot;such small increments&quot; you made wonder what exercises you were using? Sticking to compounds using a barbell will usually allow you a greater loading range than isos using dumbbells. If you only have access to dumbbells then I understand that it can be more difficult to work out a load progression.

It's perfectly fine to repeat workouts so, as an example, say for squats your 5RM was 120kg, you could easily do something like this:

SD

Week 1: 90, 90, 95

Week 2: 95, 95, 100

Week 3: 100, 100, 105

Week 4: 105, 105, 110

Week 5: 110, 110, 115

Week 6: 115, 115, 120

Week 7: 120, 115, 120*

Week 8: 120, 115, 125*†

SD

That's effectively one mesocycle spread out over 8 weeks. During Week 1 you could probably manage 10 or so reps with 90. As the cycle progressed you would reduce reps according to load. you would just have to be careful not to train too close to failure each time or your strength would drop off as fatigue accumulated.

* For Weeks 7 &amp; 8 you would be working at your previous 5RM loads so they would be hard and heavy sessions. Notice I've reduced the load mid-week to allow for a bit of recovery before a further push on the Friday session. The other way to get around fatigue build up would be to drop to sets of 3 reps with your 5RM loads.

† at the end of a cycle it's always fun to see if you can improve on your previous 5RM and carry that over to next cycle.

Try to keep your rep count about the same over the cycle. So if you started at 2 sets of 10 reps you would want to finish up your cycle with 3 or 4 sets of 5 reps, or perhaps 6 sets of 3 reps. Obviously, if you go to failure on the first set you are unlikely to get all your reps in on the next set, so you would need to cluster reps up to your target.

Hope that helps.</div>
Great post, thanks! What i meant by small increments is that I've noticed that using six increments per rep range causes a lot of zig zagging when you're not that physically strong. This also leads to ridiculous starting weights, which is why I thought of using the same weights for two straight weeks. As mentioned in the post above, one idea I thought of is to do two sets the first week, then three sets the next, thus shifting back and forth to make sure there actually is an increase in volume. To clarify, here's what it would look like:

Week 1: 12RM-10KG (2 sets per exercise)
Week 2: 12RM-10KG (3 sets per exercise)

Week 3: 12RM-5KG (2 sets per exercise)
Week 4: 12RM-5KG (3 sets per exercise)

Week 5: 12RM (2 sets per exercise)
Week 6: 12RM (3 sets per exercise)

Week 7: 5RM-10KG (2 sets per exercise)
Week 8: 5RM-10KG (3 sets per exercise)

Week 9: 5RM-5KG (2 sets per exercise)
Week 10: 5RM-5KG (3 sets per exercise)

Week 11: 5RM (2 sets per exercise)
Week 12: 5RM (3 sets per exercise)

On the other hand, I might just drop the whole thing and go back to the basic HST program
wink.gif
 
<div>
(Stefan @ Jul. 08 2008,2:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's right, Your interpretation of &quot;12RM-10 Kg&quot; is bang on: Full body workouts, 3x a week with a weight 10 Kg below the 12RM. One idea I have would be to stick with that weight, i.e 12RM-10KG, for the entire first week and do two sets per exercise. Then, on the second week, using the same weight, I'd do three sets instead, thus increasing the total volume.

Anyway, I think you made a good point in regards to the need for steady progression. I'm kind of drawn, though, to the simplicity of using the same weights for two straight weeks, albeit with different amount of sets.  
tounge.gif
</div>
It has been proven (the research was even posted in this forum if you search for it) that extra volume has very little impact on muscle building, it is the load that reigns in the kingdom of hypertrophy, in particular relative load/load progression so, although it is simpler to keep the weights and raise volume, hypertrophy-wise it is not efficient.
Be it 15 reps or 12 reps I would start my cycle with 70% of the RM and increase load every workout until I reach my 100% of the RM for that rep range on the last day of that mesocycle. Using relative weights like x% of the RM allows better flexibility since a 10Kg different for a deadlift is probably not much, for a DB Curl is plenty.
For example a 3 week mesocycle for 12 reps, assume your squat 12RM is 100Kg, how I would set it up:
1st wo: 12x70 - 2nd wo: 12x75 - 3rd wo: 12x80
4th wo: 12x85 - 5th wo: 12x90 - 6th wo: 12x95
7th wo: 12x95 - 8th wo: 12x100 - 9th wo:12x100
I put 12x for 1 set of 12 reps, of course you could do 2 or even 3 sets but watch out since there is little gain in doing additional sets in regards to hypertrophy and there is the additional risk of overtraining.
 
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(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,1:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Stefan @ Jul. 08 2008,2:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's right, Your interpretation of &quot;12RM-10 Kg&quot; is bang on: Full body workouts, 3x a week with a weight 10 Kg below the 12RM. One idea I have would be to stick with that weight, i.e 12RM-10KG, for the entire first week and do two sets per exercise. Then, on the second week, using the same weight, I'd do three sets instead, thus increasing the total volume.

Anyway, I think you made a good point in regards to the need for steady progression. I'm kind of drawn, though, to the simplicity of using the same weights for two straight weeks, albeit with different amount of sets.
tounge.gif
</div>
It has been proven (the research was even posted in this forum if you search for it) that extra volume has very little impact on muscle building, it is the load that reigns in the kingdom of hypertrophy, in particular relative load/load progression so, although it is simpler to keep the weights and raise volume, hypertrophy-wise it is not efficient.
Be it 15 reps or 12 reps I would start my cycle with 70% of the RM and increase load every workout until I reach my 100% of the RM for that rep range on the last day of that mesocycle. Using relative weights like x% of the RM allows better flexibility since a 10Kg different for a deadlift is probably not much, for a DB Curl is plenty.
For example a 3 week mesocycle for 12 reps, assume your squat 12RM is 100Kg, how I would set it up:
1st wo: 12x70 - 2nd wo: 12x75 - 3rd wo: 12x80
4th wo: 12x85 - 5th wo: 12x90 - 6th wo: 12x95
7th wo: 12x95 - 8th wo: 12x100 - 9th wo:12x100
I put 12x for 1 set of 12 reps, of course you could do 2 or even 3 sets but watch out since there is little gain in doing additional sets in regards to hypertrophy and there is the additional risk of overtraining.</div>
Roger that... Another thing I'm concerned about is the length of each cycle - it feels too short. Is there any way of lengthening the &quot;standard&quot; cycle? Maybe continuing with the 5RM for a couple of weeks? In the FAQ it says you're supposed to start over after the first cycle and simply add 5-10 pounds to the weights for the next cycle. That feels a bit too optimistic to me...
 
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(Stefan @ Jul. 08 2008,3:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Roger that... Another thing I'm concerned about is the length of each cycle - it feels too short. Is there any way of lengthening the &quot;standard&quot; cycle? Maybe continuing with the 5RM for a couple of weeks? In the FAQ it says you're supposed to start over after the first cycle and simply add 5-10 pounds to the weights for the next cycle. That feels a bit too optimistic to me...</div>
The vanilla cycles are made of 3 2-week mesocycles plus an additional 2 week mesocycle that can be either, negatives, triples, max-stim or 5s again (hopefully with a little added weight). That gives a 2 month cycle. You SD for a week or two and start over.
I am not sure if 5-10 pound increase in lifts is too optimistic unless you are cutting and even then it is feasible. Increasing 10 pound in your RM for bench, squat and deadlift should be expected from a cycle to the next, even more if you are relatively new to lifting.
 
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(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,3:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
The vanilla cycles are made of 3 2-week mesocycles plus an additional 2 week mesocycle that can be either, negatives, triples, max-stim or 5s again (hopefully with a little added weight). That gives a 2 month cycle. You SD for a week or two and start over.</div>
Ok, that sounds interesting. I tried searching the forum for &quot;triples&quot; and &quot;max stim&quot; but found nothing. Would you care to explain please?
 
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(Stefan @ Jul. 08 2008,5:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,3:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
The vanilla cycles are made of 3 2-week mesocycles plus an additional 2 week mesocycle that can be either, negatives, triples, max-stim or 5s again (hopefully with a little added weight). That gives a 2 month cycle. You SD for a week or two and start over.</div>
Ok, that sounds interesting. I tried searching the forum for &quot;triples&quot; and &quot;max stim&quot; but found nothing. Would you care to explain please?</div>
Well, for max-stim you can start Here. It is basically a way of cheating fatigue to be able to achieve more reps at a higher load. And by triples I mean 3 rep sets ramping up to your 3RM. And by negatives I am referring to exercises with a weight you are normally unable to lift and you just do the eccentric part as slow as possible (don't try doing that on bench without a spotter
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)
 
<div>
(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,4:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Stefan @ Jul. 08 2008,5:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(electric @ Jul. 08 2008,3:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
The vanilla cycles are made of 3 2-week mesocycles plus an additional 2 week mesocycle that can be either, negatives, triples, max-stim or 5s again (hopefully with a little added weight). That gives a 2 month cycle. You SD for a week or two and start over.</div>
Ok, that sounds interesting. I tried searching the forum for &quot;triples&quot; and &quot;max stim&quot; but found nothing. Would you care to explain please?</div>
Well, for max-stim you can start Here. It is basically a way of cheating fatigue to be able to achieve more reps at a higher load. And by triples I mean 3 rep sets ramping up to your 3RM. And by negatives I am referring to exercises with a weight you are normally unable to lift and you just do the eccentric part as slow as possible (don't try doing that on bench without a spotter
biggrin.gif
)</div>
Gotcha, and thanks for your help! I must say, Max Stim sounds interesting. The only problem is that the website is down so I can't download the template!
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Edit: Nevermind, I found a downloadable template
smile.gif
 
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