My question around HSt and full body routines

J

Joe.Muscle

Active Member
Okay more than once I have asked the question to myself and to others how much is enough and what is too much on 3 times a week. Answer is it varies we all get that.

Now HST and Waterbury routines which are the two I seem to do the most are both full body.

Now with both programs and especially hst we watch our load and volume.

For example 2 or 3 sets per muscle group at best.

We know this is sufficient if we continue to increase load each workout. Here is were my question comes into play.

5 years ago I tore my shoulder tendon bench pressing very heavy. I am always nervous and weary about going too heavy b/c it took a while to recover and I don't want that to happen again.

So for someone like myself who is not willing to push his 5 rep max but only so far...due to comfort level or basically me being scared of reinjury, does this change anything around HST?

The reason I ask is b/c eventually someone like myself who is injured only gets so strong before you just dont take that risk.

For example I use to do 130 pound dumbells for 6 reps. This was rougly my 7 rep max.

now I dont ever get above 80 pound dumbells.

Could I get more weight...I am sure I could but there is always that fear in pushing to much in that injured area.

So with me somewhat limiting myself with strength gains what is the better way to continue to grow.

More frequency? More volume? SD'ing more often?
 
My recomendation would be a slower tempo and, thus, more time under tension with the lighter weights.

By the way, did you mean each DB was 130 pounds? That's quite a load for DB's. How do you get them into position? I tried those DB hanger things but found them to be awkward and a bit dangerous.
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Yeah I actually meant 130 each hand.

I did this when I was younger.

Two of my training partners at the time would pick them up each and hand them too me.

Now I don't recall how good my form was back then...but If I had to guess it was no were near as good as it is now.
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ITs weird I want to push to lift more...but I normally only do that with Hammerstrength do to scared a having a tear again?

Just for the record guys I tore my shoulder tendon doing a 1 rep max...so that has a lot to do with it.
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Nov. 06 2006,13:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah I actually meant 130 each hand.</div>
Hmmmmmm. That Joe.Muscle one strong medicine man. I could get a good workout just spotting him!
 
personally i think HST style training is very well suited to your problem in a few different respects.
15's help condition the tendons for the soon to be heavier loads (10s &amp; 5s)
the lack of any real 1 rep work (if you dont want too)
periodic SD
gradual increase of wgt used over weeks.

i seriously sympathize with you as ive been in a similar situation a few yrs ago. shoot for small improvements (5-10lbs)each cycle and you should be fine. doing 4-6 weeks of 60-80 lbs will prepare you well for a few w/o of 85 to 90lbs. and the next cycle will prep you for 90-95 lbs and so on and so on.

 as long as you keep slowly adding wgt each cycle you should be growing and the body adapting to the stress. just dont go for any big jumps or 1 rep maxes.

good luck
 
Like the others, I think just making small incremental improvements each cycle is the ticket to continued success. You should gain confidence over time and get an early warning before any potential re-injury.

If I was in your position, for chest exercises I would do a progression based on 16s 11s, 7s and not go lower than that unless I felt very confident that the situation was greatly improved.

Just keep on avoiding all out efforts and keep your form really good.
 
Thanks Lol,

Thats basically what I have been doing except it has been more like 15, 10 and 6.

BlueJacket...I agree HST is the suitable...maybe you didn't notice but I have been hear a while...and my body feels way better b/c of this.
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To O&amp;G....I use to be strong...not know more!

Doing that kind of crazy weight with bad form is what caused the tear 5 years ago!

You would not be impressed at all if I told you how I did it!
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I agree with O&amp;G's memo about tempo...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
More frequency? More volume? SD'ing more often? </div>

Keep high reps involving your shoulder... dips, military, bench... even deadlift. I would go for more frequency as too much volume in a given day would be more stressful on your shoulder. I wouldn't increase the frequency of your SD's, but give more time - say 3 weeks.
 
What I have learned in my studies of hypertrophy and strength training, is that the three variables (load, volume, frequency) are limited in application and interdependent. That is, it can be highly effective to increase the loads to very heavy weights sometimes (1-4 rm) but too recover, you will have to drop frequency and/or volume. OR it can be beneficial to increase frequency to 4 times/week or more, but for most mortals this would mean limiting load and volume, (using lighter loads and lower sets since frequency is so high.) On the other hand, you might try a more traditional muscle-mag routine and do alot of sets, but limit the frequency and loads. Etc, etc.
In your case, heavy loads may be too taxing on your tendons. No problem, I would keep using lower loads, say 15s, 12s, 8s, 6s. Instead of extending the 6s and pushing the loads too high, you could try pushing volume and/or frequency. Do 15s for 2 weeks, 12s for 2 weeks, 8s for 2 weeks, 6s for 2 weeks, then instead of ending your cycle, stop progressing the loads and instead, add a set to each exercise each week. If you normally do 2 sets per exercise, do 3 sets for week or two. Then go up to 4, etc. This way you are forcing the muscles to adapt to an increased workload, instead of an increased intensity, thus reducing the risk of injury, but still using the principle of progression to extend your cycle.

Just an idea.
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Sci...

Thanks for that tip...man...why didn't I think of that?

I have been trying to do 6 sets of 5's but haaaa...that would be the day...I end up doing one lighter set (say 70 Kg on squat) before going onto 90 Kg and then only manage another 4 sets....phhhhhiuuuu...more than enough.

It can be done with some exercises though and I am enjoying it.

Your variable is a good option though.
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i agree with sci on this one.
O&amp;G hold the dumbells as your stood up,put them on your knees,and as you sit on the bench throw your knees up towards your chest then just take them over your chest,when your finished just drop them to the side but keep your hands on them so they dont bounce.
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Faz

I have tried that but since I only do incline benches and not flat benches, I have trouble getting DB's over 100 pounds up to the correct position. Instead I just switch to a barbell when I get to the 5's. Not as good but a lot safer with safety pins in place.
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O&amp;G amazing.

Dont take this the wrong way...b/c its a compliment but that kind of strength at your age is amazing!

Can we say Role model
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(Old and Grey @ Nov. 07 2006,14:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not as good but a lot safer with safety pins in place.      
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O&amp;G, my twisted mind thought that was really funny!
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I had visions of you straining so hard you needed a diaper! I was going to suggest Pampers as they have sticky tabs rather than safety pins and so are faster to replace after an accident!
 
LOL, you are a very demented person if you are having daydreams of me in diapers. You've obviously been in solitary confinement without conjugal visits for too long.
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