negatives- new to hst

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imported_eric.malitz

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Do I use my 5 rep maxes to do negatives or do the whole routine over again but using negatives instead of normal lifting.
Also, whats eccentric/concentric mean?
 
Beyond your 5RM...

An example of the negative or eccentric portion of your rep is when you lower a barbell during a bench press.
 
eric,

Read this:
Negs

… then come back with any questions.
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From the FAQ:

- Select a load which is approximately your 2-rep max and do 1-2 concentric+3-4 eccentric reps for all 6 workouts of this phase. This is the easiest way and should be followed for your first try with the program.

- After your last workout of 5s, continue the progressive increments for each workout until you can no longer control the weight on the descent for 2-4 seconds. You may also vary the concentric:eccentric rep number ratio. E.g for the first workouts in the negatives microcycle, you may do 3-4 regular concentric/eccentric reps+1-2 eccentric-only reps. On the last workouts of negatives you may do 5 eccentric-only reps. This is for more advanced lifters, as the injury potential would be greater from the heavier loads that will be lifted.

I still dont understand. After finishing my 2 weeks of 5's, I use a 2 rep max for every exercise and do 2 normal reps and then 4 negatives?(in the first alternative). I do not understand the 2nd alternative option at all.
 
Eric, first thing to say is that it's actually fine to just keep using your 5RM loads for another two (or even more) weeks and still benefit from doing so. The level of response, and thus protein synthesis triggered, will gradually diminish over the time spent with these loads but they will remain effective for quite some time, mainly because, once you are using your 5RMs, full recruitment of motor units is required from the very first rep. RBE will gradually set in, but it doesn't happen over night.

My preference is to continue to increment the loads I am using once a week. When I first started doing HST I found I got a fair bit stronger each cycle so incrementing the loads at the end of 5s was a great way to discover my new 5RMs in all my exercises. Once you have found your new 5RMs you could just stay at those loads, for the reasons stated above, or you could continue to increment. I like to keep the 5s going for as long as possible so I am happy to increment just once a week. If you want to do a shorter cycle just increment more often.

Until you are happy that you have plenty of experience with the lifts you are using, I wouldn't recommend going too heavy too soon. It is very easy to let your form drop off just for the sake of adding more weight to the bar and then you may open yourself up for injury. If you are happy that this won't be the case then increasing the loading will increase the hypertrophic response as long as you are able to get enough volume in with the loads. So, if you have been doing 10 reps for each exercise during 5s you want to try to keep that up during post-5s.

What the FAQ is suggesting is that as you increment past your 5RM you naturally won't be able to do 5 consecutive reps so you might do 3 regular reps and then do a few negatives with the same loading. So, if you wanted to get 10 total reps you might do 3 regular reps and 2 negs for your first set, followed by 2 regular and 3 negs for your second. As you continue to increment the loads you will be unable to do as many regular reps so more of your reps will be negs.

My feeling now is that, unless you are a well seasoned lifter, you can probably get a lot of mileage out of regular reps, particularly if you use clustering to allow you to get enough volume in without frying your CNS.

So, yes, negatives with heavy loads (>2RM) are a great way to increase strain on muscle tissue but they will leave you more open to injury and they are not easy to perform for many exercises without the help of one or two spotters. I'd forget negatives for deads and back squats. Dips and chins, on the other hand, are ideal candidates as you can perform them with just the aid of a step-up platform; use your legs to boost yourself back up to the starting position before each successive rep.

Hope that helps.
 
I agree with LOL. Negatives have their place in a routine but can lead to injuries if not executed with precise form. I prefer extending and, when possible, increasing the load on the 5's.
 
Just a bit of blather (like that word, Lol?) in understanding ecc/con.
A muscle does not "PUSH"! It can only PULL.
Therefore, when it pulls, it "concentrates", "condenses", "compresses" in a way.
When you bench, the triceps and pecs pull the back of the forearms to extend the arms, not push them. So "pushing" the load up is concentric. When you lower the weight (folding the arm), it "extends" the muscles and is therefore eccentric.
Inversely, a bicep curl is concentric when the arm is pulled towards you (folded), as the bicep is compressing...in a sense.
And opposingly, is eccentric when the weight is dropped, as the bicep extends.
Did I get it right guys, or confuse the issue further?
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<div>
(quadancer @ Nov. 22 2007,10:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just a bit of blather (like that word, Lol?) in understanding ecc/con.
A muscle does not &quot;PUSH&quot;! It can only PULL.
Therefore, when it pulls, it &quot;concentrates&quot;, &quot;condenses&quot;, &quot;compresses&quot; in a way.
When you bench, the triceps and pecs pull the back of the forearms to extend the arms, not push them. So &quot;pushing&quot; the load up is concentric. When you lower the weight (folding the arm), it &quot;extends&quot; the muscles and is therefore eccentric.
Inversely, a bicep curl is concentric when the arm is pulled towards you (folded), as the bicep is compressing...in a sense.
And opposingly, is eccentric when the weight is dropped, as the bicep extends.
Did I get it right guys, or confuse the issue further?  
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Perfect way to describe it.

Negatives or eccentrics are another way of saying &quot;loaded stretch&quot; as Quad described so clearly. They can be done with enormous loads, but spotters/safety is critical.
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Nov. 22 2007,15:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Negatives or eccentrics are another way of saying &quot;loaded stretch&quot; as Quad described so clearly.  They can be done with enormous loads, but spotters/safety is critical.</div>
Although you have to be a bit careful in your definition of what a 'loaded stretch' is.

I usually use that term to mean holding a load statically as when performing an isometric contraction in a position where the primary muscle(s) being worked are in a very stretched state.

Pulsed stretches are similar but also include a small concentric movement which then allows the load to drop down to its lowest point, triggering the stretch reflex. Of the two, pulse stretches are the most risky; I pulled a calf muscle doing them with a pretty heavy load. Treat them with caution.

I suppose you could say that negs are a dynamic loaded stretch!  
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Quad: enjoyed the blathering!  
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Learning that Limey Lingo to complement my spanish!

Another term that might confuse things is Static Holds, which I believe is your Loaded Stretch. But no movement necessary; it's for grip strength alone, I believe. I never believed in, and have evidence against isometric contraction as a musclebuilder.
Wup, there's another term for confusion...
Muy confusicado, por que, por que?
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I think of static holds as just an isometric contraction for the forearm muscles. However, if you let your shoulders drop slightly forward and as low as possible then it would class as a loaded stretch for the traps (assuming the load was heavy enough). Another good example of a loaded stretch is when you support a load on your calf muscles with the balls of your feet and toes on a block and with your heels dropped as low as possible.
 
Traps is the perfect example of loaded holds and stretches. I couldn't build traps until I started employing both concepts with every shrug rep. The same thing, in my case, to a slightly lessor extent with lats doing pull ups and chin ups. Much better for hypertrophy than for pure strength, me thinks.
 
I don't think it's confusing, but the glossary terms were a bit oversimplified; that's why I posted a longer description.
If we're gonna confuse an issue, let's do it right !
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Confusion feeds my ego! The more confusion among lifters the less likely for them to gain much muscle and the bigger I look. We should promote more confusion. Threads like Simplify and Win should be banned. They help too many people and I will ultimately look smaller.
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Threads like Simplify and Win should be banned. They help too many people and I will ultimately look smaller. </div>

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If you feel that way...imagine how I feel and I started the damn thread!
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