new rip interview on t-nation

[imported_fearfactory]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_on....trength

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe: This isn't something I dreamed up. Strossen's written about it. Perry Rader's old programs from the '40s and '50s involved 20-rep squats. 20-rep squats are not a beginner's thing, because beginners can't possibly do them correctly. But for an intermediate lifter who wants to take six or eight weeks and grow some legs, 20-rep squats do a marvelous job.

It does make you tough. But most people can't stand to do the damn thing. If you're doing it right, you won't go more than six or eight weeks. You just can't. At least I couldn't, and I'm kind of stupid about that kind of stuff.

For an actual, no ****, set of 20 squats, you're going to pick a weight that you previously thought was your 10-rep max. And you're going to do 10 reps with it. Then you're going to do the 11th rep, and you're gonna breathe a little bit. And finally, you're gonna finish the 19th rep, and Jesus is gonna be talking to you about this time.

Then you're gonna finish the 20th rep, and you'll somehow get it back in the rack, and then you collapse. You'll get tunnel vision and your hearing will change while you're trying to catch your breath. All kinds of weird peripheral central nervous system effects will take place.

What you normally find is that you're laying on the ground, and you think, &quot;Oh my God, I'm so glad that's over with.&quot; And then after about five minutes, the realization occurs, &quot;I gotta do this again next week with another ten pounds. Oh ****.&quot;

Most people can't deal with that for a long period of time. But it's terribly useful for short periods of time.
</div>

 

[faz]

bryan has said himself ,its not the sets thats important but the amount of reps you do,the reason most routines are split into sets is basicly fatigue.

by using your 10rm then doing 20 reps &quot;similar to max-stim&quot; you are going to create a good stimulus to the muscle,but are you going to burn out your CNS qucker,because its basicly working to faliure every session.

also why squats only why not curls/bench/chins,etc.

 

[Wildman]

<div>
(faz @ Aug. 14 2008,6:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">bryan has said himself ,its not the sets thats important but the amount of reps you do,the reason most routines are split into sets is basicly fatigue.

by using your 10rm then doing 20 reps &quot;similar to max-stim&quot; you are going to create a good stimulus to the muscle,but are you going to burn out your CNS qucker,because its basicly working to faliure every session.

also why squats only why not curls/bench/chins,etc.</div>
Oh yeah baby! Bring on a big frothy icey cold glass of milk to go along with these tastey lifts! You can do the 20 rep scheme for every kind of lift. A nice change of pace to structured sets once in a while too. Dont limit yourself to a weight you can do 10 times either. Why not a weight you can do 5 times? 20 one rep mini sets are a great way to shock as well. If you dont want to try it as a program, experiment with it on a single muscle complex a few weeks during your normal routine as a replacement to all the regular sets. These work.

 

[Lol]

At the end of the day, muscle growth is going to be triggered by strain/stretch on the muscle tissue that lasts for a long enough period of time (TUT). 20 reps with a heavy weight will do that. However, as long as the loads are heavy enough (10RM/8RM to 5RM+), it's quite fine to not do the reps all in a row (Dan's Max-Stim took this to the logical limit with 20 singles) and get a very similar, if not equal, growth response without caning your CNS quite so hard. ie. you'll still be able to see and hear by the last rep!

If the loads are lighter (around 20-15RM) then using low reps for each set will probably not produce a very good response because the tension is lower and you never get to the stage where all the motor units are firing (and very little fatigue will build up between reps which would ordinarily increase fibre recruitment). At loads around your 5RM all motor units in the target muscles are going to be firing from the start of the set, whether it be for one rep or five.

I believe the hormonal response to something like 20-rep squats has been shown to not be such a big deal but I don't have a study to cite.  

Of course, if you practice 20-rep squats you will get better at them as your body adapts to the new demands being placed on it (SAID principle again). If that's what you need, then go get 'em!

 

[TunnelRat]

I dunno, I'm frankly surprised that anyone (let alone Rippetoe!) is still talking about the old &quot;Squats and Milk&quot; program. Now that Dan Moore has shown us the Max-Stim M-time method, I am not sure why anyone would want to go back to the old way.

It is TUT and not fatigue that spurs muscle growth. Why beat yourself up so terribly, when all you need do is to put the bar down between reps and rest from 10 to 30 seconds...? You get the same TUT with way less damage to your CNS.

 

[scientific muscle]

Rippetoe is a great strength coach. But he doesn't know jack-$hit about hypertrophy and bodybuilding. He has even said so himself....so take his advice about 'growth' with a grain of salt.

 

[beingisbeing]

<div>
(scientific muscle @ Aug. 14 2008,1:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe is a great strength coach. But he doesn't know jack-$hit about hypertrophy and bodybuilding. He has even said so himself....so take his advice about 'growth' with a grain of salt.</div>
At least he admits it. All the crossfit zealots are another proposition entirely.

My buddy is always telling me 'how big I'll get&quot; if I drop HST and switch to crossfit. HA HA HA HA HA

I think Dan's Max Stim is the antipode to crossfit. one avoids metabolic fatigue almost entirely in favor of hypertrophy, the other is a metabolic/strength workout with little concern for hypertrophy (and rightfully so, but not for me)

 

[mikeynov]

<div>
(scientific muscle @ Aug. 14 2008,1:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe is a great strength coach. But he doesn't know jack-$hit about hypertrophy and bodybuilding. He has even said so himself....so take his advice about 'growth' with a grain of salt.</div>
He's just as old school as they come.

His speciality, by his own admission, is raising the strength of beginners in good form as quickly as physically possible. If they eat properly, then they also tend to gain a shitload of muscle.

In all honesty, if somebody is a true beginner, I'd rather have them do a Starting Strength style routine or even a basic, strength/performance based HIT routine. Why?

Because at the beginner stage you can make linear increases in strength, which means you are adding weight to the bar literally every time you train. In essence, you are observing the HST principles while simultaneously raising strength as fast as possible.

Imho, HST and its variants (e.g. Max-Stim) figure in at the intermediate stage, when linear increases in strength have been tapped out.

 

[EL_VIEJO]

<div>
(scientific muscle @ Aug. 14 2008,1:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe is a great strength coach. But he doesn't know jack-$hit about hypertrophy and bodybuilding. He has even said so himself....so take his advice about 'growth' with a grain of salt.</div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe: Oh, yeah. The primary effect of our program is muscular bodyweight gain. </div>
I'll take his advice without any salt. I wish I had had his advice when I was young.

What Rippetoe has said is that he has no interest in bodybuilding, not that he doesn't know anything about hypertrophy. I read a very funny quote from him where he said something about guys covered in brown paint, standing on stage in their underwear, and flexing their muscles for other men. I am by no means anti-body building. I wouldn't be on this forum if I was, but what he said was pretty funny. The guy is extremely knowledgeable, has loads of practical experience training people, and has a great sense of humor which might rub some people the wrong way. And, I have to admit, he can be overly vulgar at times which I know turns some people off. But, overall, the guy knows what he is talking about and has the experience to back him up.

 

[EL_VIEJO]

<div>
(TunnelRat @ Aug. 14 2008,10:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I dunno, I'm frankly surprised that anyone (let alone Rippetoe!) is still talking about the old &quot;Squats and Milk&quot; program. Now that Dan Moore has shown us the Max-Stim M-time method, I am not sure why anyone would want to go back to the old way.</div>
It might be because the old way works. Unfortunatley I'm not in a position to give it a try. At my age drinking a gallon of milk a day would probably leave me looking like the Michelin man. A short, bald Michelin man.

 

[bgates1654]

The massive CNS depletion of the &quot;20-rep squats&quot; method might add a bit more strength, once you get a chance to recover at the end of 6-8 weeks of that ****. I believe the technique is called &quot;overreaching&quot; or something like that. I am not saying Maxstim doesnt add strength, I am just saying that 20 rep might have that edge over it.

I think, however, that maxstim would make up the difference and more with the fact that you can use your 5RM for 20 reps instead of your 10RM.

 

[quadancer]

you'd never make 8 weeks of that stuff, even if you're 25. Been there, done that.
Overreaching OTOH, is supposed to be a great way to progress if you do it right:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

I've missed a week of workouts starting a big job, setting up crews, moving lumber, long days...got worried about it and hit the local playground for a BW upper body pushpull routine. Now, I've been on the &quot;Old Grey routine&quot; lately and loving those 12's and 9's...but am a bit fat at 204 due to no cardio or sports or whatever.
So I did HighFeets pushups on the slide, narrow chins on the monkey bars, narrow and wide pullups on the swingset, dips on the ladder rails, vertical &quot;pendlays&quot; with feet hooked up and pulling to the ribs, then face pulls in the same position. Oh, and curls also from that position. So I'd hit bi's, lats, tri's, chest, rotators, posterior delts, anterior delts and ....cardio. Man, I was sweatin' like a fat gal at a disco. I went over to one of my crews and they said they'd never seen me so pumped, and I have some nice but not bad DOMS here a day later.
Sometimes a quick rabbit trail can be good in a lot of ways, but I wouldn't make a habit of it; you'd destroy the training concept.

 

[scientific muscle]

<div>
(mikeynov @ Aug. 14 2008,2:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Aug. 14 2008,1:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rippetoe is a great strength coach.  But he doesn't know jack-$hit about hypertrophy and bodybuilding.  He has even said so himself....so take his advice about 'growth' with a grain of salt.</div>
He's just as old school as they come.

His speciality, by his own admission, is raising the strength of beginners in good form as quickly as physically possible.  If they eat properly, then they also tend to gain a shitload of muscle.

In all honesty, if somebody is a true beginner, I'd rather have them do a Starting Strength style routine or even a basic, strength/performance based HIT routine.  Why?

Because at the beginner stage you can make linear increases in strength, which means you are adding weight to the bar literally every time you train.  In essence, you are observing the HST principles while simultaneously raising strength as fast as possible.

Imho, HST and its variants (e.g. Max-Stim) figure in at the intermediate stage, when linear increases in strength have been tapped out.</div>
I agree 100%. Strength training is the basis of all hypertrophy training. 'Starting Strength' is the optimal template for any beginner...beyond the beginner stage though....its time for Bryan Haycock's method, if your goal is pure size above all else.

 

[Wildman]

<div>
(quadancer @ Aug. 20 2008,8:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">you'd never make 8 weeks of that stuff, even if you're 25. Been there, done that.
Overreaching OTOH, is supposed to be a great way to progress if you do it right:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

I've missed a week of workouts starting a big job, setting up crews, moving lumber, long days...got worried about it and hit the local playground for a BW upper body pushpull routine. Now, I've been on the &quot;Old Grey routine&quot; lately and loving those 12's and 9's...but am a bit fat at 204 due to no cardio or sports or whatever.
So I did HighFeets pushups on the slide, narrow chins on the monkey bars, narrow and wide pullups on the swingset, dips on the ladder rails, vertical &quot;pendlays&quot; with feet hooked up and pulling to the ribs, then face pulls in the same position. Oh, and curls also from that position. So I'd hit bi's, lats, tri's, chest, rotators, posterior delts, anterior delts and ....cardio. Man, I was sweatin' like a fat gal at a disco. I went over to one of my crews and they said they'd never seen me so pumped, and I have some nice but not bad DOMS here a day later.
Sometimes a quick rabbit trail can be good in a lot of ways, but I wouldn't make a habit of it; you'd destroy the training concept.</div>
I used the Milk Squats routines back in the 80s and can attest to the effectiveness for strength. Plus I like milk so I win.

I love the impromptu workout Quad. I used to do stuff like that and kind of miss it. We used to go to a fitness trail in our little city with 15 stations just for a change of pace. We would run the circuit a few times and I remember being quite sore from the change of venue. We also did the old Austrian Blitz once a month or so. We take a barbell and a load of plates out to the woods. We would load up the bar and do squats or dead lifts or cleans. You know, whatever nice big compound we thought we wanted to work on. We would do a You-Go-I-Go until one of us gave in. Sometime it would last a couple hours. Pack it all up and have a BBQ and get drunk. Then rest those muscles for about a week because we would simply fry em!