No Progression with Deadlifts

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imported_hannesburk

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hey guys

I am currently on my 12 hst-cycle,so you can see I like the system pretty much and it has worked much better for me than everything I did before.

the only but not unimportant thing is,that I am just not able to progress on my deads. I am currently lifting 400 pounds for 5 reps but this is also where I am stuck for month now. all the weights are going up slowly but steady but not when it comes to the deads. I do them every other workout and only 1 set for 15s 10s and 5s. I use to do them every workout but that was just too much,but less volume doesn't help me.

what would you do in my situation? I was thinking about switching to 5x5 just for deads and doing all the other excercises in the common hst-style..maybe that would help

have you got other ideas?skipping the deads for one cycle? the weights are just to heavy and I really have to fight for the last reps so that it feels like muscular failure during the last rep and my lower back feels like exploding.

I am very thankful for your experience

regards
Hannes
 
You are trying for PR's the wrong way. The 15's followed by tens are wearing you out. I would do 5x5's for a few workouts, and when you are ready to try for a PR, (if the progress slows), you would "warm up" with lowrep sets or singles up to your new max lift.
You didn't say where you are in your cycle...and if you're at the end of it, you may be in need of a SD or just a deload, coming up again to pass your former PR.
...IMHO.
 
But regardless, I would only do deads once a week at most, rather than alternate them. I assume you alternate with squats? So do squats twice a week and deads once a week, every week.
 
There's a bunch of things you could do , how well they would fit in with HST is another matter.


           1) next cycle (after sd and 15's) drop down to 360lbs. for 3x3 once a week (360 is 80% of your 1rm which at 400x5 is 450 give or take a lb.) right now you can do 412-415 for a triple (don't though- I'm just letting you know where you currently are for triples) , advancing with 15 lb. increments (I'll repeat only once a week - no other DLing) You will break your PB provided you are eating . I would do deads on monday (assuming a M,W,F routine) and drop rows and/or pullups/chins from mondays w/o - doing them wens. and fri. only.


          2) switch to sumo if conventional or to conventional if sumo for a cycle - then in future cycles alternate cycle to cycle.



          3) re-asses/asses where you are in your training life , noob , Intermediate and first stages of advanced will have no problems with basic HST ,but as much as I believe in HST it leaves a lot of advanced and elite level strength ( advanced/elite for your genetics) needs unaddressed IMHO. Either tweak HST to fit your needs or use a program that does. This simply put link will either resonate with you or it wont , if you're where I think you are in your training life I think it will -
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/pathofchampions.html


4) DE work (speed work @ 50-70% 1rm)


5)yet another way-
http://tsampa.org/training/scripts/coan_phillipi_deadlift/






             Good luck  
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(Totentanz @ Jul. 25 2007,02:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But regardless, I would only do deads once a week at most, rather than alternate them.  I assume you alternate with squats?  So do squats twice a week and deads once a week, every week.</div>
agree also you could try a variation of the deadlift like romanian or straightlegg for a cycle.
 
5x5 would be better for strength gaining rather than HST.
 
Yeah, except 5x5 is HST. It would simply be a little more volume than typical HST cycles and slightly different progression. That's probably why most people who manage their diet properly find that 5x5 produces a good amount of hypertrophy. Instead, just adding a little more volume through ramp up sets for your deadlifts, additionally starting deadlifts at around 80% of your 5 RM when you begin your cycle instead of 70% of your 15 RM, then incrementing only once a week, would all accomplish the same thing.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Jul. 25 2007,20:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, except 5x5 is HST.  It would simply be a little more volume than typical HST cycles and slightly different progression.  That's probably why most people who manage their diet properly find that 5x5 produces a good amount of hypertrophy.  Instead, just adding a little more volume through ramp up sets for your deadlifts, additionally starting deadlifts at around 80% of your 5 RM when you begin your cycle instead of 70% of your 15 RM, then incrementing only once a week, would all accomplish the same thing.</div>
5 sets of 5 reps right?

just wondering how many exercises do you use,more or less than hst?
 
Less, on average, that depends on how many assistance exercises you do. But everything is there - mechanical load, progression, frequency. The only thing missing is SD.
 
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(Totentanz @ Jul. 26 2007,12:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only thing missing is SD.</div>
And Dan Moore has expressed his doubts regarding the efficacy of SD unless it is significantly longer than 14 days...
 
I think we talked about this in another thread, or it was something closely related.  Anyways, I would think a specialty program of box deads and rack pulls would be a good way of getting your RM higher, and then on your next HST cycle progress up to your new RM's.  I actually noticed at the gym I work out at, that they made 3 boxes of different heights to &quot;progress&quot; the mechanical disadvantage.  

Here is a routine you could think of doing that we talked about:

Let's use 400 lbs. as an example of your max.  Put 425 on the bar and do rack pulls from slightly above your knees.  When you can get it 3 reps, lower the support bars some.  When you can do that for 3 reps lower it more.  &quot;Rinse and repeat&quot; until you are eventually doing them from the floor, and your 1RM (or maybe 2 or 3RM) should now be 425.  Obviously, this will probably take more than one workout.

On the flip side, take your 400 again (assuming it's your 1RM) and when you can get it 3 times, stand on something about 3 inches high.  When you can lift it 3 reps from that height, up the height 3 more inches.  Do the same progression as the rack pull version.  When you are able to pull 400 while standing on something a foot high, your 1RM should inherently be larger than it was before.  So then see what you can pull while standing on the floor once again.

I like the first approach, and think it's more applicable.  I've never tried the 2nd, but it makes sense in theory.  Trying one, or both should help in getting your RM higher, and therefore letting you progress more on your next HST cycle.  

Hope that helps.
 
hey guys

thanks a lot for all the replies. I now got tons of good ideas just thinking about which I am going to use,but you are definately all right that I need another technique for a cycle or two and that it might would be a good idea to chance rep-format.

a sumo-style max-stimulation cycle (just deads,rest classic HST) could be a good thing for the purpose of uping my 1RM,you agree?

best regards
H.
 
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