Not using load

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Joe.Muscle, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. the_dark_master

    the_dark_master New Member

    Best way to introduce Kids to liftin' - don't; sneakily introduce dragging (weight - not the child) odd lifts, Turkish get-up etc...
    Then let them ask YOU.
    Anyhoo, 10years from now you might not need to "train" (for fitness or physique)
  2. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    Hey :)

    Oh, not at all Joe G. In fact, if you take a look at it, it gives you a better understanding and a better way to evaluate all the different "rep speed methods" that have been promoted for so long - there are so many of them, like those that say a specific number of seconds (like 42-67) per set is the best, or 4 seconds up and 4 seconds down, or perhaps some other gimmick.

    The simple rule is - slow down the eccentric so that it's not just gravity that does that work, and the concentric should be as fast as you can without sacrificing form (this is where the acceleration comes in). Because of the acceleration, we get a little more tension. If what you believe in or what you are after is simply TUL, then you can do whatever you may want including slowing down the concentric. If you want to increase the peak tension too, then aside from slowing down certain parts of the movement, you can also do the concentric faster.

    The application is limited (or almost null) if you already follow the rule of slowing down the eccentric and doing the concentric as fast as you can (meaning you simply don't purposely slow it down), and of course you regularly increase the load. But Joe's question was a hypothetical one that was very limiting - how to increase the tension to ellicit hypertrophy without increasing the load. And so, that was one of the possibilities. Aside from doing more reps, you can increase acceleration which will add to peak tension.

  3. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    On a general note, I second the fact that the eccentric part of the exercise should be slow and controlled by you instead of gravity.
  4. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I remember an interesting conversation with my physics professor from 2 years back. He was an avid form of pulsing at the eccentric point of the exercise (think of it as controlled bouncing).

    His hypothesis was that at the most stretched point, a fast and heavy rep would cause the most muscle damage. Somehow he started relating it to car crashes and the force at impact.

    It seemed a bit dangerous to me, but the physics was sensible:

    *F=ma, so given that mass is constant, we want a faster acceleration to increase force

    *Greater force = greater tension borne by the muscle

    *When stretched and under load, muscles are easier to (micro) damage

    That was his theory...

    Re: Newton's 3rd law...

    Yes the same force will be applied to the body, but in the concentric portion of the lift, will that lead to a size gain..?
  5. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    That's almost exactly what I was going about when I made that super long post, and the post before that when I mentioned and tried to explain the various formulas (or formulae, if you prefer).

    Will it cause size gain? Well probably. Since it will cause greater tension - which is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy - then yeah, it should. How much or even if it will be significant depends on a lot of other factors.

    Of course, the best way to increase tension still remains to be simply increasing the load (which is why we determine that LOAD is our focus). If you can't or don't want to, like Joe.Muscle's hypothetical situation, then yeah, anything that will cause greater tension is ok and probably will cause more hypertrophy.

    I'm sorry, I might have misunderstood your question - are you asking that, although Netwon's 3rd law exists, does it mean that all the force you exert on the bar will be transmitted to your participating muscle groups in the movement? If that's the case, I already answered that in my earlier post, which is why, although you may look at it from that point of view, I noted that you shouldn't, and then as I explained it more I mentioned the other things to consider which makes the weightlifter-barbell system not really accurate, and thus you can't really accurately apply netwon's 3rd law to state that whatever force you apply on the weight will be directly applied to your muscles, because definitely not all of it will.

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