? on Load for experts

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Joe.Muscle

Active Member
Since I got injured 4 years ago benching heavy, were I tore my bicep tendon benching over 300 lbs for my 1 rep test. I get nervous naturally when the weights get very heavy at times. I say this only b/c with and injury like I have since starting hst my strength has gotten way better, however when I get toward the end of 5's were the growth really gets good for most people I get a little nervous b/c of the strain on the tendons.

If you were me would you guys continue and just make sure you dont push it too far, or am I better to say use some form of a lighter load but incorporate drop sets or pre exhaust or partial reps?

I guess what I am asking is in a perfect world I would just lift more and more weight but b/c of injury I get nervous with tht sometimes so is it ok to use other techniques to fatique the muscle or am i just getting away from HST by not following the principals of load?

Thanks,

Joe
 
Strain on the tendons - is this imagined or real? No insult intended, but the mind is far more influential than most of us give it credit for.

At some point you will have to get stronger if you want gains to continue.

You may get stronger training 3x6-8 at your 6/8RM every workout and increasing when you hit your rep target +1 or 2 more. Or working at your 5RM may work, or negatives...

...but I doubt you can circumvent the need to increase strength (over time) with drop sets and post-exhaustion.

Just my opinion.

Alternatively it may be the exercise that's the problem . . . so, do dips - they don't seem to strain the way a press does.
 
Jester thanks for the reply. I tore the muslce doing heavy bench press so I dont do those at all anymore with a barbell.

I just do dumbell press on incline and that helps.

HST has believe it or not done wonders for the way my chest/ shoulder tie in joint feels from the injury, only b/c I dont overtrain now on hst were I was in the past.

I have always been a volume type trainer never putting to much thought behind load ever since I got hurt. B/c the truth be know before I was hurt I trained heavy as hell and did not grow no were as fast as when I started using lighter weight with better form.

Anyway just curious to see what others will say, I guess I will always be timid a little of pushing it real hard b/c of the old injury?
 
I'm not saying you have to train heavy as hell. But unless you hit some drugs, at some point you will have to use heavier weights, and after that use heavier weights and so on...

If your 5RM for bench/dips/squat is 220lbs, at some point it will need to become 230lbs, then 240lbs and so on...
 
Well my input is very simple, getting hurt again surely won't help you in gaining strength or size. So first, have you been to a specialist to see if it has healed properly. If so what did they say? If not, you may want to.

Next, if you are more comfortable working with movements that still stress the pecs but you are more confident in these not causing possible injury then I would do that.
 
DKM I have been to specialist. Maybe I wasn't clear. This happend over 4 years ago, and Starting HST has been the best thing ever and the closest program that has got my strength close to were it used to be. The tendo has healed properly there really is not a way it cant heal improperly unless it is tore from the bone.

I guess my question was more like this;

Can we fool the muslce with load? Meaning if I pre exhaust the muscle say with flys or dips then go into a set of presses, naturally I cant handle as much weight, also b/c of pre exhaust I give out earlier...so in fact a lighter weight with pre exhausted pecs actually feels heavier. So does this produce the same type of load???

I mean muscle don't know the difference in the amount of weight :confused: Correct???

Or is it as simple as this will not work and eventually you just have to lift more and more?

thanks,

Joe.
 
Even using preexhaust or other fatigue tricks, over time your strength should and more than likely will increase. Therefore over time, in order to continue to be effective, weight must increase. The up side is the lower weights used after pre-exhaust won't be nearly as large and scary. But yes, eventually weight must increase.
 
I'm not an expert or anything Joe so hopefully DKM can either back up or refute what I'm saying ( ! ) but I think you''re confusing load and work.

Lets say you're doing 100kg on the bench. Whether you're pre-exhausting or not the load is still 100kg. It will be much harder to lift if you've pre-exhausted using pec flies etc but this doesn't affect the amount of the load.

How much load you neeed obviously depends upon how conditioned your muscles are with the most important point being that the load increases overtime to stay ahead of RBE, I would have thought the additional work from pre-exhausting would cause conditioning to increase more quickly (not sure about that though).

I used to use pre-exhaustion techniques etc but these are much more associated with HIT type routines where it's the amount of effort that counts....HST obviously goes against this.

So I would say no you can't fool your muscle in that manner.

However Lyle's take on HST is on a recent post around here somewhere and there's a lot of talk about how extended cycles of HST - where load is increased much more slowly - may be beneficial. This might be something of interest to you because that would mean a lot more time spent building up the weights and therefore more time at weights you feel more comfortable with.

Cheers

Rob
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I say this only b/c with and injury like I have since starting hst my strength has gotten way better, however when I get toward the end of 5's were the growth really gets good for most people I get a little nervous b/c of the strain on the tendons.
Click to expand...
It has healed completely already. What does not kill you makes you stronger. Don't worry, it can take the load. Just observe proper form all the time, and don't go crazy trying to "push" your maxes before you can actually push them farther.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]am I better to say use some form of a lighter load but incorporate drop sets or pre exhaust or partial reps?
Click to expand...
Nope, sorry.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Can we fool the muslce with load? Meaning if I pre exhaust the muscle say with flys or dips then go into a set of presses, naturally I cant handle as much weight, also b/c of pre exhaust I give out earlier...so in fact a lighter weight with pre exhausted pecs actually feels heavier. So does this produce the same type of load???
I mean muscle don't know the difference in the amount of weight Correct???
Or is it as simple as this will not work and eventually you just have to lift more and more?
Click to expand...
Doesn't really work like that. Muscles don't know exactly what you are pressing (say 275) but it registers to them how "heavy" it was. That's what actually matters. You can of course get away with more and more volume. But without increasing load (we've had this before), you'll eventually reach a point where you'll need to do a ridiculously large number of reps and sets - in the end, it just wouldn't be worth it at all. So eventually you have to increase the weight.

If you really dislike working with super heavy weights, what you can do is simply stick to ending the cycle after your 5's, or repeat your 5RM for two weeks. As you grow stronger, your 5RM also increases, so you really won't be stuck at a certain weight - you'll still be increasing poundages in the long run. Without negs or any type of post 5's (like going for 4RM or 3RM or heavier), growth won't be as fast. But you'll grow anyway, that's for sure.

But really, your tendon will be mad at you for thinking he's a wimp. He can take it. He's stronger now.

Regards, good luck! :)
-JV
 
Thanks JV !

It always helps to have and educated opinion.

Thanks again,


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