opinions on a injury

Fausto

Fausto

HST Expert
Well guys
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I just thought I’d put my latest dilemma in words here on the forum.
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Since my last trial with 5 x 5’s I went really heavy on push presses or seated military presses (70 Kg ~ 156 Lb) which is basically my body weight, whilst this felt great then, I now have an inherent pain in my entire shoulder girdle, which makes me think that I should drop mil presses for a while.
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Things did get worst when I tried to do some dips (body weight) at home using two chairs the pain was absolutely unbearable and I could not even complete a rep!
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On the other hand, I am doing 15’s albeit giving Dan’s Max-stimulation a go. This has been making the pain a little worst.

My dilemma, should I drop Mil presses or should I go light as per 15’s and stick to it so I can heal up? What’s the general consensus?
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Hi Fausto. I'm not sure I can be of much help but you certainly have my sympathy!

I am working through a similar shoulder issue right now (although yours sounds worse
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). I have had to stop heavy benching during 5s. I have been doing 20-25 reps with a light weight instead and it seems to be helping (well, it's getting better not worse). I think it's only sensible to cease all heavy lifting for exercises that cause the pain and just go light for those lifts until things improve.

It's a funny thing  
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but I haven't had to stop doing shoulder presses or heavy dips. I didn't get pain last evening using 165lbs (75kgs) for presses and 100lb db for dips. The shoulder joint/rotator cuff sure is a complex beast!

I am wondering if muscle can get stronger faster than tendons and insertions? This would explain the cause of my problem as I am always careful to warm up well.
 
Thanks LOL.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have had to stop heavy benching during 5s. I have been doing 20-25 reps with a light weight instead and it seems to be helping (well, it's getting better not worse). </div>

Benching isn't yet an issue, but I can feel a bit of a pinch, on the one side, perhaps becausre yesterday i did then flat...flat, and normally i do a slight incline, it always helps where the shoulders are concerned!

Just as thought, I'll take up the light weights for the seated mil presses (my partner will be delighted as I'll take the same weight as his)
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, so far that is teh only one really causing pain.

Funny I am on the 15's, so I should heal it now, just was trying Dans max-stim stuff for some exercises, but I think for now at least with shoulders I'll stop &quot;faffing around&quot; if you know what I mean!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's a funny thing but I haven't had to stop doing shoulder presses or heavy dips</div>

Yeah, funny joint the rotator cuff, dips for me are excrutiating, presses are somewhat sore. Feels like a slight impingement , I might even visit the physio as my medical will allow for that this year!

Pitty my shoulder work was really going well!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Pitty my shoulder work was really going well! </div>
Yeah, my benching was going really well too. I may try a slight incline next cycle and see if that helps. Thanks for the tip.
 
I am having same trouble at the moment but it is the bench press thats causing me trouble with my shoulder.
so i just stayed with my 15 max weight for a while and done some extra side and rear laterals.
fausto maybe we are just to old for tha heavy weights mate
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Hey faz, at 41 I ain't no spring chicken!
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Bench is the only exercise that has bitten me back so far.
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I am beginning to realise that as you get older you have to be kinder to your joints and allow them time to get used to heavier loads. However, as I have never trained in the 5 rep range in my life before HST, I don't have past experience to go by. My strength has gone up a fair bit so I think my tendons, ligaments and joints are having to play catch up with my muscles' ability to handle the heavier loads.

I'm on a three year plan so I don't need to rush my progress, but it is hard to be patient!
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I tore my pec were it ties into the shoulder girlde...its acutally the bicep tendon.

However yours just sound very very aggravated.

I believe Totentanz is having the same dilema right now.

What I have found that works is SD..but SD doesn't make it feel better it makes it feel worse in my opinion. But SD does give the injury time to heal. Then I would start back with a high frequency very high rep low volume routine. Say 20 reps with or 25 rep max.

Basically SD and stay away from the heavy reps.

I am like you if I lift heavy for a while like 5 x 5 my tendons flair up!

We just are not young anymore..hehe.
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Fausto, I would just lay off anything that hurts. I think I have come to the conclusion that maybe I shouldn't be doing military presses anymore either. Figure the shoulders get plenty of work with my benching, dips and I add rear delt work in. I added military presses to my new cycle and I was only in my first week of 15s then I tweaked my shoulder. I also was going to add incline presses but I backed off of that since I was having to perform 4 warmup sets to do the lift without feeling anything in my shoulder. I switched to an incline hammer strenth machine that is working good since I don't have to turn my should for the press but it still hits my upper pecs.

I should note that I didn't tweak my shoulder doing the military presses. I tweaked it shuffling papers around on my desk, lol. I do think think that maybe the extra work was maybe a tad too much for the shoulders. Didn't bother me benching or dipping though.

Keystone
 
Faz

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">fausto maybe we are just to old for tha heavy weights mate</div>

Nah, mate, I don't buy that! I screwed up that is why! I'll just have to fix it and put up with the shlep
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We just are not young anymore..hehe.</div>

Point taken Joe, but I just came from an SD, that is not an option, I'd rather drop the exercise that is hurting me.

Any other opinions, I am going to use rehab exercises and high rep ranges 20 - 25.
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Good one Keystone.

Maybe I'll just go back to the old lateral raise followed by rear raise superset, it got my shoulders nicely shaped.

And when I can I'll go back! Shot!
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if you can still bench do incline and rear laterals that way you should get a good workout for shoulders.
 
Yep, that sounds like the same issue I'm having. I went through 5x5 too and had some big strength gains with my overhead movement. After a little more than two weeks of SD, it's a lot better, but overhead movements are still a pain. Arnold Presses aren't as bad, and I want to use them to try to rehab the joint. Benching feels fine.
Right now. it only hurts in real world situations when I throw things or try to lift something really heavy (over 50 lbs) over my head. I chopped a bunch of wood with an axe yesterday and that didn't hurt at all. For what it's worth, dips hurt like hell right now for me too, so I'd suggest laying off the dips and overhead presses for a while and maybe go see a physio like you were thinking. The problem could just go away after a while, but you never know.
 
Great bunch of guys as usual, my thoughts and intentions are now resolute and I shall do exactly as I planned.

Shot again gang
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He guys, Im young
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and have no shoulder problems but I thought Id share opinions/ thoughts from reading the thread and some possible options.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My strength has gone up a fair bit so I think my tendons, ligaments and joints are having to play catch up with my muscles' ability to handle the heavier loads.</div>

I read that somehere, ( a book by Ian King and Don Schuler) , damn effective workout routines
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">dips hurt like hell right now for me too</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">dips for me are excrutiating</div>

Maybe dips are hard on the shoulders? Or maybe dips are hard on shoulders that are already injured.

Stuff I heard about shoulder injuries

1 dumbell bench and press are better than barbell bench and press. Do you guys mainly use barbells?

2 In particular the portion of the exercise where the barbell touches your chest/neck are strenous on the shoulder joint. Do you guys take your exercises through the widest possible range of motion.

3 My friend had been lifting for years and he had shoulder problems but solved them with a rotator cuff exercise, specifically the one where you start with you elbow at your side holding a light dbell or cable and then externally rotate your shoulder, keeping your elbow at the side.

4 Im sure you guys do this but the youve got the same number of sets in the opposing motion right?

Good luck guys
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Interesting topic.

I was in a car accident about a year ago and messed up my shoulder. Essentially I tore one of the tiny muscles in there that hold the shoulder in place. I think they called it &quot;sublux shoulder&quot;. Basically, there is some movement in my shoulder where there should be none. Realistically this means that when I do certain exercises or place stress on my shoulder in certain directions, I am in great pain and could possibly turn that little movement into a dislocation.

I went through physical therapy and learned a lot about my shoulder and how to stengthen it. I do cable work with 10 pounds 3 times a week and several other exercises as well.

Cable work...
With about 10 pounds I do exercises that mimic #2 and #3 from this page while standing instead of laying down. Make sure the cables are at elbow height on this one.
I also do exercises where the cables are up high and I take my left arm (for example) and pull from high left to low right.
The complementary exercise for that on is to take the left arm and go across the body; high right pulling to low left.
And then there are the low cable exercises where the cables are as low as they'll go and I use the left arm to pull from low left to high right.
The complementary one for this is to cross the body and pull from low right to high left.
I generally do 2-3 sets of 10 on the above exercises.

There are a few other exercises I do that I'll post if anybody is interested. I generally don't do all the exercises in one day. I'll do 2 cable exercises and maybe 1 or 2 other exercises three times a week.

Oh yeah, I would cut any weight training that affects your shoulder until you get this figured out. You only have to destroy your shoulder once to kill your ability to left weights.

One last thing, my physical therapist told me was to not to bother going for the full range of motion. If you hold your arms out like you were going to hug somebody and then widen them, eventually you will hit a point where they (for lack of a better description) shift forward in the armpit area. I don't know how else to explain it. But a different set of muscles takes over at this point and they aren't designed for heavy weights. Any fly movement, bench press, etc., that take you beyond that natural curve could do damage to the tiny muscles that hold your should in place.
 
fausto,

i have similar pains from the same exercises. i've had the problem since december! about 2 weeks back i decreased my frequency from 8-10x/week to 6x/week. i also stopped doing dips and shoulder press.

on my cardio days (3 days a week) i have been doing 30-40rep db side raises.



i am happy to report that my shoulder feels better than it has in months, even though i am closing in on the end of my 5s and still doing heavy weight on incline db bench!
 
Style, Deli

Thanks guys for the articles, some new stuff to try out!

Jw - thanks, I think I'll be doing something similar.
 
<div>
(style @ May 09 2006,14:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">cool deli, hows your shoulder now?</div>
It's a lot better than it was 6 months ago. There are positions I can put my arm in now that originally made me uncomfortable (not that it hurt, just that I knew it could if any stress was placed on it).

It's going to be a long time before it is back to &quot;normal&quot;, but it will be worth it. I'm probably going to do the exercises for the rest of my life just to keep things strong. I basically don't go beyond the natural arc that my shoulders/chest make and discontinue/change postition if my shoulder starts to pop (like cracking knuckles) while I'm lifting.

Oh yeah, dips are hell on the shoulders because they take you past the arc I mentioned earlier (assuming you go all the way down).

Fausto - Good luck with your shoulder. Just make sure you listen to your body, and you should be alright.
 
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