Order of Exercise

Old and Grey

Old and Grey

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Mosy people here have always recommended doing squats first since they are usually the heaviest and most compound exercise. I prefer to do them last since they take so much out of me. Here is an interesting blurb from the Dr. Squat September newsletter:


Order of Exercise

A common question that newbies ask is what exercise should I do first. Conventional Wisdom says, “SQUATS!” Well… Hold on a minute! Researchers studied 9 subjects who engaged in whole body workouts. In one protocol, squats were first, in the other, they were last. When squats were done first, it was found they could complete more reps at loads of 85%. However, peak power levels where higher when they were done last. Researchers noted the results of higher peak power levels at the end of a full body workout may be due to “postactivation potentiation”. Doc and I have talked about this before during workouts, as well as on his Q&A board. We referred to it as priming.



So the question remains when should squats be done? The research doesn’t give a definite answer, only some things to think about.
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Here is a reference to the research report for the scientifically inclined:
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Spreuwenberg, L.P.B., W.J. Kraemer, B.A. Spiering, J.S. Volek, D.L. Hatfield, R. Silvestre, J.L. Vingren, M.S. Fragala, K. Häkkinen, R.U. Newton, C.M. Maresh, and S.J. Fleck. Influence of exercise order in a resistance-training exercise session. J. Strength Cond. Res. 20(1):141–144. 2006
 
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(Old and Grey @ Sep. 15 2006,15:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So the question remains when should squats be done?  The research doesn’t give a definite answer, only some things to think about.    
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As I have a love/hate relationship with squats I like to get them out of the way. Same with deads. On the occassion when the squat rack is in use and I have had to squat later in my w/o it hasn't made any noticeable difference to me.

I may try doing them last next cycle and see how I get on.

Of course, the most benefit will be gained from actually doing them regardless of when!
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hmm interesting... right now i'm just getting back into squats lightly (25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 on each side for 15s). Since i had a bad bad bad back last cycle I stopped doing them, now i'm trying to get back into it easily. Sadly my max for sqauts is 270, but i can leg press upwards 900! Damn back problems!!!

I have tried doing them both ways, first and last. First, it sets a tone for your workout for sure! At the end, it makes you walk to your car like you had a really really intense workout, not to meantion it takes more to complete them.
 
I usually superset my BP and pull ups before squat or DL. Then I have a good rest before completing my workout. It has worked fine so far.
 
There may be something to it. I strained my hip Monday on squats (I hurt my hip years ago, not lifting related though) so I skipped olympic lifting all week, deadlifting and squats today.

You would expect that you'd do better on your other exercises when you skip the squat, not so with me. My benches and rows are always more difficult if I haven't squatted first. Could be a mental thing though.
 
Squatting doesn't do much when I change the order, for me, but deadlifting does. Putting deadlifts at the end sucks hard. I can still complete all sets/reps but the last couple reps are a lot harder when I do deadlifts last than when I perform them first. Squats aren't a problem typically though.
 
I do those stuff last. (Squats / deads)

I got that from Aaron. Doing them first (especially when really heavy) may mean you are already tired before you even start on the remaining 90% of your workout. I don't know if his views have changed since then, but it still makes sense for me. But it's probably just my personal preference. Whatever works for you I guess.
 
Sort of a related topic....I used to do them last for that reason, but now that I've switched to light 20 rep sets, I'm doing them first for my warmup! On the 5 rep sets I had to move them to last for energy reasons. That way my workout didn't suk and I still hit them hard because my mind knew that was all I had left to do (heavy).
 
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(Old and Grey @ Sep. 15 2006,10:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mosy people here have always recommended doing squats first since they are usually the heaviest and most compound exercise. I prefer to do them last since they take so much out of me. Here is an interesting blurb from the Dr. Squat September newsletter:</div>
I wish the study said that they studied 9 bodybuilders, or, even better, powerlifters, instead of subjects.   If these 'subjects' were inexperienced lifters, maybe they would have to warm up a great deal before getting ready to do their 50 lb squats for 9 reps.   I want to see vital info, like bodyweights, &quot;max&quot; lifts, and number of reps. There is too much difference between experienced lifters and non experienced lifters to make much out of that study.  

The most taxing lifts are the deadlift and squat.  When I was doing high volume, I had deadlift as my third back exercise, and it just about killed me.  I brought it to first, and things were better.  I've never tried moving the squat back toward the end of a workout, but I don't see why I wouldn't have the same problem I had with the deadlift.
 
I look at that question from the perspective of age.

20 years ago I was doing high intensity (Arthur Jones/Ellington Darden/Mike Mentzer) training that ordered the exercises from heavier to lighter similar to HST. In those days I could walk into the gym and step right under a heavy squat bar right off the bat. In other words, I didn't need to warm up or pyramid up; I could jump right to the work sets.

These days that's not the case. I notice that I'm weaker if I don't warm up or pyramid up. Further, I don't really like doing aerobic warming or light sets as it makes me feel old. I have two ways around that: I either ride my bicycle to and from the gym as the warm up and cool down; or, I reverse the order of the workout and let the lighter movements prepare me for the heavier work.

Of course with HST this isn't as large an issue because we're not training to failure (utilizing maximum voluntary strength) at every workout. Sometimes I have to remind myself of that as I'm so used to training to failure.

So, in a word, I say take as many personal variables into account as you can and do what works best. Personally, I like the idea of training lagging bodyparts or bodyparts that you want to focus on first. That can be done on a cycle to cycle basis. HST focuses on whole body workouts; the order of exercises is not carved in stone.
 
Yeah, squats? Deadlifts? First thing for sure, they too damn hard to do last, I like to get rid of them fast!
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(Old and Grey @ Sep. 17 2006,08:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">KD6TAS.....KD1MA here.

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Good to see another ham here.

I hope that my post made sense.
Within the 4 major principles of HST warmups and exercise order are variables that can be changed to suit the participant.

73,

Bill
 
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