Plateau: Failed RM

C

celc5

New Member
I'm in my third HST cycle and progressing nicely.

Each time I run an HST cycle, I progress my rm's from 5-15 pounds as appropriate for the lift.

This time around, I did not achieve my 5rm goal for my last workout on my bench (4 first set, then 3 second set). I did achieve my 15 and 10 rep goals for bench. All other lifts were accomplished and I plan to continue to progress as usual.

When I set up my 4th HST routine, do I use the SAME rm for 5's while progressing my 15's and 10's?

...Or do I progress the 5's anyway for sake of progressive load in the big picture and ignore rep goals?

Thoughts, comments, etc all appreciated
 
Keep going with your 5 RMs for another week or so, attempt your bench 5 RM once again during this time. It is possible you were having a bad day, so I would give it another attempt. It is also possible that your projected 5 RM was inaccurate.
In the future, instead of adding 5-15 lbs to each RM, retest your 5 RM at the very least at the end of your cycle and use that to build from. You can do this easily if you don't end your cycle when you hit your 5 RMs and instead continue on, attempting to add weight to each lift every workout. Eventually you won't be able to add weight and will have learned what your new 5 RM is for each lift.
 
Thanks for the responses to both of you.

Faz,
I like the idea of keeping it where it is. I'm seeing a refined pec development with HST that I haven't experienced on any other routine.

Totentanz,
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that if the "accurate" rm is chosen, that my weights and rm will not change for my subsequent HST routine next time around?

Traditional thinking would say that as muscles hypertrophy, I should be able to lift heavier on my next HST plan. Maybe that's part of misconstrued thinking that HST philosophy is trying to correct?

Thanks for your input.
 
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(celc5 @ Jun. 30 2008,8:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that if the &quot;accurate&quot; rm is chosen, that my weights and rm will not change for my subsequent HST routine next time around?  </div>
I think that Tot was getting the impression from your statement that you automatically added 5-15 lbs, rather than actually tested your new RM.

I am with Tot on trying again.  I have missed my bench a few times lately only to come back the next day, or even later in the day, and knock out 5x5.  Especially as you get to the higher weights, it is easy for fatigue, or just a &quot;bad day&quot; to make you miss.  You may also find that you need more recovery time -- maybe try 2x/wk on your 5s and post-5s and see what happens.  At 47, these days I find that I often need a full three days to recover.
 
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(celc5 @ Jun. 30 2008,4:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Totentanz,
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that if the &quot;accurate&quot; rm is chosen, that my weights and rm will not change for my subsequent HST routine next time around?  

Traditional thinking would say that as muscles hypertrophy, I should be able to lift heavier on my next HST plan.  Maybe that's part of misconstrued thinking that HST philosophy is trying to correct?

Thanks for your input.</div>
My 2¢: What I, and a lot of others here, do is to push for a new 5RM at the end of a cycle (ie. in the weeks following the first two weeks of 5s). Make a note of the new 5RM and then calculate the load increments for your next cycle based on that figure.

By the time you arrive at the end of the 5s again, you should be lifting what was your previous 5RM. Then over the next few weeks you should try to surpass it. Any improvement will become your new 5RM for the following cycle. Rinse, lather, repeat!  
smile.gif


Remember, if you are not adding weight to the bar over time, you are not growing and you'll need to address the situation.

Sometimes one exercise might be suffering at the hands of another. So your bench might suffer if you have been doing well in your pressing and vice versa.
 
Ruthenian and lol, thanks for you input.

I tested my Rms for my first cycle. Once I achieved my 5rm for that cycle, I added 5 pounds to my bench 5rm for the second cycle.  I barely squeaked that one out and added 5 pounds for my 5rm for this cycle when I failed/plateaud. I think I needed to clarify that my rms were not arbitrary numbers.

I think that's the logic you're using lol, but if not, feel free to steer me in the correct direction.

Just a side note, I'm ok with not moving the weight for 5 reps.  I simply have a tendendancy to micro manage things and want to see how you guys think I should plan out my next cycle.
 
Another technique is to just redo the 5s. That is, if you don't make 5reps with your 5RM weights, just start the 5s over again and then attempt to nail it on the 5RM day two weeks later. I find this helps; the lower weights at the beginning of the 5s provide a bit of recovery and allow for overreaching.

Just a thought . . .
 
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(celc5 @ Jun. 30 2008,1:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ruthenian and lol, thanks for you input.

I tested my Rms for my first cycle. Once I achieved my 5rm for that cycle, I added 5 pounds to my bench 5rm for the second cycle. I barely squeaked that one out and added 5 pounds for my 5rm for this cycle when I failed/plateaud. I think I needed to clarify that my rms were not arbitrary numbers.

I think that's the logic you're using lol, but if not, feel free to steer me in the correct direction.

Just a side note, I'm ok with not moving the weight for 5 reps. I simply have a tendendancy to micro manage things and want to see how you guys think I should plan out my next cycle.</div>
I'm not really sure what was misunderstood in my previous post? What I am saying is...
Your RMs should be going up every cycle unless you are not consuming enough calories. But you never want to simply add 5 lbs to your previous RMs as this will eventually result in inaccurate RMs which will either be too easy or too difficult.
You should always test at least your 5 RMs before you SD. If you do as I suggested and attempt to progress beyond your 5 RMs after the 5s, you will eventually reach failure on each lift, which will tell you what your new 5 RMs are. Then you can use these new 5 RMs to build your new cycle.

I know the FAQ does mention simply adding 5 - 15 lbs to each RM at the end of the cycle, but this isn't a very optimal way to do things. For best accuracy, I would take a whole week before SD and find my 15, 10 and 5 RMs during that week.
 
I find that something as simple as losing a few hours of sleep can cause me to really bite the dust on my lifts for that day, especially when I'm around a repetition max type situation.

Like the veterans said, sometimes just a few hours/days later, you come back to it, and bang, its there.

Tot, before you SD, do you spend an entire week setting new 15 10 and 5 RM? Like M for 15s, Weds for 10s, etc?
 
Navigator, that sounds like a good option. I'll have to try that. I've also considered moving on to 3's, but see total time in the gym to be a bit much with warm ups before each lift.

Tot, thanks for the clarification. I was monitoring carbs a lot more closely this time around to bring out the abs, so you may be correct on overall caloric consumption.

Being, I agree with the sleep issue. I try not to use stims. But I admit that I'll use ephedra, RPM, or TRAC Extreme NO preworkout if I didn't get enough sleep the night before.
 
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(beingisbeing @ Jul. 01 2008,1:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I find that something as simple as losing a few hours of sleep can cause me to really bite the dust on my lifts for that day, especially when I'm around a repetition max type situation.</div>
At the risk of hijacking the thread, does anyone know if there are physiological effects from lack of sleep on muscle growth/recovery, or does it primarily affect workout intensity and fatigue?  With warm-ups, I can usually manage the fatigue issue, but have noticed some limited growth during periods of inadequate sleep.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tot, before you SD, do you spend an entire week setting new 15 10 and 5 RM? Like M for 15s, Weds for 10s, etc? </div>

Well, I don't do 15s typically, but I don't spend a week finding RMs either. I do what I said about progressing beyond my 5 RMs until I reach a new 5 RM and then calculate from there. I can usually determine what my new 10 RM is from that point. However, for accuracy, you should really test each RM at the end of the cycle, since even if you stretch out the 10s until you hit a new 10 RM and save that for next cycle, you will still have gained strength by the end of the 5s, making that 10 RM potentially inaccurate.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tot, thanks for the clarification. I was monitoring carbs a lot more closely this time around to bring out the abs, so you may be correct on overall caloric consumption.</div>

That's most likely it then. It's not really realistic to expect consistent strength gains while cutting carbs/calories. Also, it is generally not possible to gain muscle while losing fat i.e. 'bringing out the abs' which was almost definitely your problem with the bench issue. You need to focus on one goal at a time: either gaining muscle/strength or losing bodyfat. You will find the most success that way.
In general, you will be losing strength while cutting bodyfat - maintaining it at best, and if you are really lucky, doing something extreme with your diet (i.e. calorie or carb cycling, IF, etc) or are a newbie, then you might gain strength while cutting bodyfat. That is definitely not the norm though.
 
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(omega99 @ Jul. 01 2008,5:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(beingisbeing @ Jul. 01 2008,1:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I find that something as simple as losing a few hours of sleep can cause me to really bite the dust on my lifts for that day, especially when I'm around a repetition max type situation.</div>
At the risk of hijacking the thread, does anyone know if there are physiological effects from lack of sleep on muscle growth/recovery, or does it primarily affect workout intensity and fatigue?  With warm-ups, I can usually manage the fatigue issue, but have noticed some limited growth during periods of inadequate sleep.</div>
you grow at rest,not during training so if your not getting enough rest/sleep you wont grow as good.
 
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