Please comment my routine, and my thoughts on HST

[Bahiana]

Hi guys. I was wondering if you HST-veterans could check out my first HST routine and thoughts.

I am not new to training, but I have not tried HST.

I am thinking of using clustering reps, to keep Volume and TUT (Time under tension) the same and just increasing weight.

I aim for 5 sec total for each rep, as fast as possible concentric and 4 sec eccentric.

I try to get 90-120 sec TUT - I have read this is the time under tension that triggers hypertrophy.

(http://www.menshealth.com/cda/artic...0525cca010VgnVCM100000cfe793cd____&page=3)

This is the routine:

1) Full body, 3 times a week

1. Hack squat (25)-30 total reps))
2. Chest dips (25)-30 total reps))
3. Chins (25)-30 total reps))
4. Lateral raises (15-(20) total reps))
5. Decline triceps extension (15-(20) total reps))
6. One arm biceps curl (15-(20) total reps))
7. Decline sit-ups (15-(20) total reps))

Maybe 15-20 reps of calf press too.

1 week of 15s
2 weeks of 10s
2 weeks of 5s
2 weeks of negatives (5 reps-increasing the load)


Maybe switch the Lateral raise with shoulder press and upright row (1 push and 1 pull shoulder exercise (20-30 reps total))

Or switch the decline triceps extensions with narrow bench presses.

-Do you think this is too much volume?

An option is to split it in a push/pull workout, where I train the push exercises Monday/Thursday and pull exercises.

Or just cut the volume to a minimum. Maybe small muscles like triceps and biceps get their share of TUT from dips and chins, so I won't need so much total reps?

- What are your experiences with this?

Another thing I am thinking of is just making sure the total weight lifted is increased every workout. Warm up sets (and maybe drop sets) will help to ramp up the total tonnage. This way I won't need to do so many "minisets" with clustering. Or I wont need so many sets during the 5s to reach my total rep number

For instance If I aim for 30 total reps for dips, I have to do 2 sets during the 15s, 3 sets during the 10s, but 6 sets during the 5s. I think that is way too much.

If I do just 4 sets for the 5s, and count the warm up sets, the total tonnage will be more than during the 15s and 10s. But the TUT with the progressive heavier weight will be less during the 5s, but higher if I count the warm-up sets.

For instance: If I can lift 100 kg 10 times my estimated RMs will be like this (http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html):

15s : 77 kg x 2 sets, no warm-ups’ - 30x77 = 2310 kg

10s; 100 kg x 3 sets, 1 warm-up; 5 reps with 70 % of work weight - (30 x 100kg = 3000) + (5 x 70kg = 350) = 3350 kg

5s; 117 kg x 4 sets, 3 warm-up sets; 1) 10 reps with 50% and 2) 5 reps with 70%  3) 2 reps with 90% (20x117 = 2340) + (10x58,5=585) + (5 x 81,5 = 409,5) + (2 x 105,5 = 211) = 3545,5 kg

- What are your thoughts on this?

Phew, I just had to get that out. Lots of thoughts in my mind. I may be overanalyzing things :S

 

[liegelord]

You have only two really good exercises there. If your goal is size, then you've got to stick to the basics. Full ROM squats, deadlifts, bench, Pendlay rows, dips, chins, standing OH press and power cleans. Alternate exercises with A&B workouts MWF.

A:Full ROM squats, bench, Pendlay rows (or cleans), standing OH press
B:deadlifts, dips, chins, standing OH press

If you add 50-100 pounds to each of these lifts and your not considerably larger, then you didn't eat enough.

 

[faz]

1. Hack squat (25)-30 total reps))
2. Chest dips (25)-30 total reps))
3. Chins (25)-30 total reps))
4. military-press
5. bent-over-rows
6. One arm biceps curl (15-(20) total reps))
7. Decline sit-ups (15-(20) total reps))
i would do this you had vertical pulls but no horizontal pulls you also had no vertical pushes.
if you are doing
15s 2
10s 3
5s 6 sets i would as you say do 4 sets plus a drop set on 5s 6 sets of five is hard i have tried it and did drops instead.also what you are doing is not really clustering its just adding more volume.

 

[Bahiana]

Liegelord: The Hack squat I use is just a variation of the deadlift. I just have the bar behind my legs, instead of in front of them. So I think this is a good exercise too. I think of it as a deadlift/squat combination. I get the quad emphasis of the squat, and the benefit of training more of my upper body by holding the bar with my arms (like deadlifting). So at least three good exercises

Yes, I thought of alternating two routines.. Have any of you guys tried this? Is it more or less effective than doing all the exercises with fewer reps per exercise, and doing it 3 times per week (standard HST)?

Faz: I originally made a program with horizontal and vertical push/pull exercises like I have always trained, but I thought I would just simplify things and take one major lift for legs and back (hack squat), pull exercises-lats/biceps/posterior deltoid (chins) and one pull exercise for chest, triceps, anterior deltoid (dips) and really hammer these exercises. Then add a few exercises for smaller and lagging bodyparts like medial deltoid, triceps and biceps.

This may not be as functional though, as I loose strength in the movements not used (vertical push, and horizontal pull) And use more isos. I may not be building much mass in my "upper pecs" by not including a more incline or vertical push exercise. (At least during the 15s and 10s)

So maybe it would be better to use more major movements, fewer isos, and fever total reps on each exercise?

Maybe like this:
1. Hack squat 15-20 reps
2. Dips 15-20 reps
3. One arm rows 15-20 reps
4. Military press (or 45 degree incline bench press) 15-20 reps
5. Close grip, underhand pull up 15-20 reps
6. Decline sit ups 15-20 reps

Or maybe 2 alternating workouts like Liegelord suggested, with fewer exercises and more reps per exercise.


I also like to get all the "real sets/reps" in, with the same progressing weight. If I use drop sets I can easily reach the specified rep range, but I don't feel this is right as I am using lighter weights to reach my reps. I think more of it as getting metabolic work done.

Oh? I thought that was clustering. Just setting the same rep range for 15s, 10s and 5s and not worrying about sets and reps.  Just trying to get all the reps in, and avoiding failure. (For instance; I do 8 reps + 6 reps + 4 + 2 reps = 20 reps total (short rest between the minisets)

Please explain

 

[faz]

For instance; I do 8 reps + 6 reps + 4 + 2 reps = 20 reps total (short rest between the minisets)
yes thats correct for clustering i thought you were just doing the normal as you wrote this
(quote)
1 week of 15s
2 weeks of 10s
2 weeks of 5s
2 weeks of negatives (5 reps-increasing the load)
your 2nd workout looks better because you are working back thicnkess aswell as back width.
if you want to do 6 sets of 5s thats up to you but i have tried this and it is very hard,
by the time you get to negs or post 5s you might be burnt out ..good luck

 

[Bahiana]

Ok. Thanks. I will start with fewer sets, and use the guidelines Bryan wrote to adjust them.

And read more on the forum. Lots of good info here. Max-stimulation seems interesting. I got to read more about that

This is my new workout (on paper that is). Its 6 compound exercises, and 2 isos.

1. Hack squat (20 reps total)
2. Chest dips (20 reps total)
3. Underhand chin up (20 reps total)
4. Military press (10 reps total)
5. Upright rows (10 reps total)
6. Decline triceps extensions (10 reps total)
7. Biceps curls (10 reps total)
8. Decline sit ups (10 reps total)

20 reps = 15s: (15+5), 10s: (10+10), 5s: (5+5+5+5), and clustering if I need to.

I think the barbell hack squat and the upright row will give me some good back thickness (erector spinae, lower, middle and upper trapezius) - Instead of the dumbbell rows.

 

[Totentanz]

You've got only one lift per major bodypart but like ninety lifts that hit the arms. I'd consider dropped either the curls or the triceps extensions, keep just one if you really, really need it. Fill in that space with a more worthwhile exercise or just leave that space free.
Upright rows aren't very good for back thickness. Maybe you were thinking of BB Bentover rows. Uprights are mostly for shoulders and upper traps, not the lower or middle traps and definitely not the erectors. Bentover rows with a barbell hit the erectors and entire back hard, especially if you stay as close to 90 degrees as you can.

 

[Fausto]

Bahiana

I'd still insist you do the standard big five:

Squats/Deadlifts/Bench Press/Chins/Military Press

or you can take the A/B approach and alternate squats/deadlifts, sorry but Hacks cannot replacce the two IMO

Squats(A)/Deads(B)
Bench (A)/Dips (B)
Chins(A)/Bent over rows(B)
Military Press (A & B)

Volume you can go 30 for 15's so 2 sests/20 for 10's again 2 sets/15 for 5's so 3 sets.

Most of us stick to 15 x 1/10's x 2/5's x 3 or even do 1.5 for 10's just to keep the volume exact right through.

Frequency - go for standard 3 x week, some guys go bananas and try to keep the 36 - 48 hour thing exact, me...I like my weekends

Eat big, like 500 - 1000 calories above RMR or BMR.

That's my 2 cents!

 

[Bahiana]

Thanks for the response

Totentanz:
No, I meant the upright rows, to hit the side delts a bit more. So instead of just one exercise for the shoulders, I split the sets over two exercises. Yes, I know bb rows (and other big pull movements) are good for back thickness, but according to http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html, the Upright row does hit the lower, middle and high traps (they work as synergists). I didn’t mean Upright rows worked the erector spinae, but the barbell hack squat did http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBHackSquat.html

Totentanz and Fausto:
Yes, you are right about the arm work, I hit them with many exercises, but I just have this feeling I won’t big mass on my biceps, triceps and side delts, without using specific exercises just for them. Do you think I should drop the isos, and maybe add more sets to the compounds?  I have never dared to just use compound lifts. I have read that others don’t grow any mass in biceps/triceps from just using compounds. :/

Maybe it’s about time I try it myself! Maybe I will get better growth from just using compounds.

What do you think of the second routine I posted? Just compounds, vertical and horizontal push pull exercises.

At least I try just one compound movement for the legs  Usually I include calf presses and leg curls/straight leg deadlifts.

I love regular deadlifts, but I seem to have gained mostly on my “upper thighs” (Adductor magnus) and butt. I train mostly in my basement, and I don’t like to do squats without a cage or a spotter. So I thought I would give Hack squats a try. I feel it really good in my quads if I do them right. But I agree that it can’t replace Squats and Deadlifts

I don’t like bb rows because I feel I can’t get any good work doing them. It’s hard to get the weight all the way up when I start to go heavy.

I also picked exercises I could do eccentric/negatives with later in the cycle.

With the A/B routine, do you mean I should lift bench Monday, dips on Wednesday, bench on Friday, dips the next Monday and so on? Do you have similar gains with this method as you do doing the same exercises in one workout with lower volume? Or just a few exercises with higher volume?

 

[faz]

as tot said drop upright-rows (bad for shoulders) do low-pulley-rows military -press will work side as well as front delts.low-pulleys will work rear-delts.
chins and dips will give your bis and tris a really good workout,i dont think you will want to do any isos after them.
do a search for compound only routines there have been many discussions on here on that

 

[Fausto]

Bahiana

As Faz puts it, if you're doing dips and chins, your arms will get a serious workout, but if you insist do this:

(from the 5's onwards)

After chins, superset style do incline d/b curls on a 45 degree bench, let them bi's stretch nicely and finish off with a loaded stretch.

After dips, go into skullcrushers with d/b or ez bar or cable whichever apply loaded stretch on last rep and hold!

Do not bother with any other isolations for now.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">With the A/B routine, do you mean I should lift bench Monday, dips on Wednesday, bench on Friday, dips the next Monday and so on? Do you have similar gains with this method as you do doing the same exercises in one workout with lower volume? Or just a few exercises with higher volume? </div>

Exactly, dips (which I only do on my kitchen stools for lack of a contraption), have the capability of carrying more load than bench press and really get your pecs into gear! When the 2 are combined, the gains are great!

 

[Bahiana]

Ok. I will read more about it. I will try a compound workout, maybe alternating two (A/B). And maybe I will add a superset for bis and tris, with stretching. Though it would be interesting to see if I get good gains from compounds only. Hmmm...

Yeah, I use the corner of my porch fence for dips, and under the porch I have some gymnast rings I use for chins. Dips are really good in the gymnast rings to.