Problem with progression

B

bobpit

New Member
I have a problem with progression. I wanted to include chinups in my HST routine. On my best days I could do 10-13 reps with my bodyweight (I now weight 84 kgr). I could do 5 reps with extra 20 kgr hanging from my waist.

There was no way to do 15s with regular chinups, since I cannot even do 15 chinus, and no way to reduce my bodyweight. Theoretically I could have gone to the Elevator-machine. But the handle is not appropriate for close grip chinups. I had similar problem with the 10s. Only during the 5s I could do a good progression.

I decided to replace chins with CLose-Grip Pulldowns, during the 15s and 10s. And then I switched to Chinups during the 5s.

My strength went up with the close-grip pulldowns. 15RM=65kgr, 10RM=85kgr. But when I went to 5s, dissaster. It seems that it had minimal carryover. I am strugling to do 5 reps with just 10 kgr hanging from my waist.

84 kgr BodyWeight + 10 = 94kgr. But I was able to do 5 reps with 100 kgrs at CLoseGrip pulldown.

I had similar problem with progression with weighted dips. But my strength there did not go down.

So what happens now is that I am close to 5Rm in all other exercises. But I am struggling to gain strength at chinups, I am way back there.

Any comments, suggestions?
 
Just my opinion, but I feel like there is another factor at work here.
One thing, you don't have to be completely rigid in a routine. You can work with your body. You can also alternate with another exersize.
Moreover, are you doing chins for biceps or lats or both? You may be stronger at pullups; each guy is different, from our poll.
Another trick is your rest times. Take a weight you can do your reps at and stay with it, only shorten the rest between sets, but I don't really recommend fatigue systems.
So take that weight and before progressing, do your set explosively instead of methodically. Until you can hit all 15 explosively. I think that's a PL technique.
...and of course, last but not least...Max Stim.
 
Quadancer, I do chinups the same way I do CloseGrip Pulldowns. I want to emphasize biceps, but I also work the back.

Quadancer, I did try to alternate Chiups with CloseGrip Pulldowns and I have this trouble now.

Totentanz. What do you mean by clustering? Suppose I am in the first day of 15s. There is no way I can do 15 chinups, even with body weight. So you say I can do 10x3 = 30 total? Next day do 8x4 = 32, Third day do 6x5=30 etc? And strive for 2x15, which is close to my limit? Is this what you mean?

But isn't this against the principle of progressive loading? If I decrease the rest intervals (which increases intensity) do I still follow the principle of progressive load?
 
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(bobpit @ May 17 2007,17:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Totentanz. What do you mean by clustering? Suppose I am in the first day of 15s. There is no way I can do 15 chinups, even with body weight. So you say I can do 10x3 = 30 total? Next day do 8x4 = 32, Third day do 6x5=30 etc? And strive for 2x15, which is close to my limit? Is this what you mean?</div>
Yes, something like that. You don't have to do it in sets. Just say &quot;Okay, I gotta do 30 of these bad boys, so...&quot; then do a few until you can't maintain proper form, rest a minute or whatever, then do some more, repeat until you hit your rep goal.
You could also split it up. Just do 15 reps total for chins during the 15s, and don't increase the reps until the 10s or 5s. If you feel bad about it, replace those 15 reps with 15 reps of pulldowns, so you are still getting plenty of work done, but you are also getting stronger at chins during the cycle as well.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
But isn't this against the principle of progressive loading? If I decrease the rest intervals (which increases intensity) do I still follow the principle of progressive load?
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No. Rest has nothing to do with progressive load. As long as you increase the weight you are using over the course of the cycle, you are still following the principle of progressive load. Since you can only chin your bodyweight, that weight should be effective for at least a few weeks... and you'll get stronger in that movement as you continue doing it. You should be able to get to the point where you can do 15 straight reps with your bodyweight by the end of the cycle... and in my opinion, it is important to be able to get to that level if you want to make good progress with your back.
 
Bob

You being too rigid with your training, as Quad put it, work with your body, cluster reps during 15's...don't feel bad...very few guys can thke the chins into the 15's...some of us are blessed with more strength or even lighter body weights, so cluster till you get your target reps.

I honestly feel the chins are irreplaceable, but the pull downs are good too, your best bet here is to work with what you can lift for now and slowly but surely increase, as Tot put it, you can easily work with a top weight (for you that is) for at least two weeks and then increase.

Just My Honest Unbiased Opinion
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