Q: relation volume-frequency w example

P

pompo

New Member
Hi,

I've read the FAQ and "Pimp my HST", but haven't found any in-depth coverage on the relation of frequency and volume.

I'm currently finishing my first cycle and want to increase my frequency for the next one. I'm thinking about going 5 instead of 3 times a week, doing a set of 8 exercises each time. The first week would be 15s, the second one 10s, the third and the fourth ones 5s and the fifth one negatives, partials and drop-sets.

As an example, I took bodybuilding.com's 3-day-HST-program (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw39.htm) and stretched it to five days.

Monday:

* Full Squats - 1-2 Warm-Up Sets + 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Snatch-Grip Deadlifts - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Incline Bench Press - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Dips - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Medium Grip Chin-Ups - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Pendlay Rows - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Military Press - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Bent-Over Rear Lateral Raises - 1 Set x 15 Reps

Tuesday

* Dumbbell Curls - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Split Squats - 1-2 Warm-Up Sets + 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Incline Bench Press - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Dips - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Wide-Grip Chin-Ups - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Pendlay Rows - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Military Press - 1 Set x 15 Reps

Wednesday:

* Lateral Raises - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* DB Hammer Curls - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Skull Crushers - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* 1-Leg Calf Raises - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Weighted Decline Sit-Ups - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Full Squats - 1-2 Warm-Up Sets + 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Snatch-Grip Deadlifts - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Incline Bench Press - 2 Sets x 15 Reps

Friday:

* Dips - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Medium Grip Chin-Ups - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Pendlay Rows - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Military Press - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Bent-Over Rear Lateral Raises - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Dumbbell Curls - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Decline Triceps Extensions - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Calf Raises - 2 Sets x 15 Reps

Saurday:

* Leg Raises - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Dumbbell Curls - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Split Squats - 1-2 Warm-Up Sets + 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Incline Bench Press - 1 Set x 15 Reps
* Dips - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Wide-Grip Chin-Ups - 2 Sets x 15 Reps
* Pendlay Rows - 2 Sets x 15 Reps

cheers,
pompo
 
Ok, I will quote from Ridgeley's book then:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Volume of Exercise

The question of how much training volume to use seems to be the one that causes the most confusion among those new to HST. The Official HST Method recommends using 1-2 sets per exercise throughout your cycle. More specifically, you should use 2 sets during the first week of each mesocycle, and 1 or 2 sets during the second week of each mesocycle, depending on how you feel as the cycle progresses.

Note that as the loads increase, doing 2 sets will get real tough. It doesn’t matter if you cannot finish your second set. We’re not concerned with pumping out a particular number of sets! Rather,
we’re concerned with exposing the muscles to mechanical stress in order to cause microtrauma.

Understanding how training volume is used in HST calls for a change in our thinking of volume in general. The two most important aspects relating to volume are the mechanical stress (i.e., tension) applied to muscle tissue you have 1 or 2 repetitions left in the tank. You will train to HST-style failure on your 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM workout days.

However, many experience strength increases throughout their HST cycles. Indeed, if your strength increases, you’ll easily avoid failure on your RM days, too!</div>

Frequency

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Full Body Workouts

The Frequency Principle states that we should carry out our training so as to create an environment of chronic loading. This calls for training the whole body several times each week.

No doubt, full-body workouts are time consuming! At the same time, your workouts shouldn’t take longer than between 45-60 minutes. This doesn’t mean that you’re ruined if your workout goes over 60 minutes; it’s just best to keep things generally under an hour. Clearly, training the whole body in 60 minutes or less offers a time constraint—especially when the gym is crowded!

To combat this problem, focus your training on mostly compound exercises that work a large number of muscles at the same time. Of course, you can use some isolation exercises, but they really shouldn’t be the cornerstone of your training. All of the following
exercises are great choices for your HST cycles.

Upper Body
Bench Press (Incline, Flat) / Dips / Chins (Wide, Narrow) / Pulldowns (Wide, Narrow) / Rows (All types) / Presses (All types)
Shrugs / Triceps (All types) / Curls (All types) / Abdominals (All types)

Lower Body

Squats (All types) / Leg Presses / Deadlifts / Stiff-Leg Deadlifts
Leg Curls (All types) / Calves (All types)

As a rule of thumb, it’s a good idea to work mostly with your compound exercises, and then use a couple isolation exercises to finish off any body part that you think needs a bit more attention. For example, even though compound exercises, such as Bench Presses and Chins, hit the arms hard, many lifters choose to work their arms directly with 1 or 2 sets of triceps extensions and biceps curls.

One question that seems to come up a lot is whether or not one should use many exercises with 1 set each or a few exercises with several sets. As with many aspects of HST, the number of exercises you use is entirely your choice, so long as your exercise selection works the whole body.

It should be kept in mind, however, that the more exercises
you choose, the longer you’ll be in the gym, especially if you decide to do more than 1 set for each exercise.

Choosing a large array of isolation exercises will likely become an increasing burden as your cycle progresses, which can lead to burnout!

It’s not that using isolation exercises will make or break your training; it’s just that using mostly compound exercises is far more time efficient.</div>

To me that pretty much covers your issue.

As for your program, IMO, you are adding a lot of variation and this is not exactly the best to get the summation effect (frequency of load) as covered by Bryan, it is better to repeat the same type of exercises so as to get the effect continuously.

I am not saying that it will not work - of course it will - but IMO it would work better with some more frequency.

You will have to eat big while you are on this program as it will be pretty intense and of course your rest is of ultimate importance!

Hope I have helped some!
wink.gif
 
Thanks for the quick reply! The summation effect and the variation of exercises... that's one thing I will have to keep in mind. I guess I'll just see how it goes and report back.

cheers,
pompo
 
You don't need to do 2 sets for the 15's. That is too much volume. How many sets are you going to do when you get to the 10's and 5's? I think it will mean too long a workout. Remember, as you increase frequency, you need to decrease volume or you will just be spinning your wheels unless you are &quot;assisted&quot;. As a general rule of thumb, I do not let my total workout time per week to exceed 2.5 hours. For a 5 day program, that would average to a workout time of 30 minutes each day. However, younger guys can probably extend the total workout time a bit more as can people on steroids.
But bear in mind that &quot;less is more&quot; when it comes to hypertrophy. It is better to err on the low side than the high side. One good exercise per bodypart is probably sufficient for a high frequency program such as you are proposing.
 
@Totentanz

To be honest, I just chose the winner of the &quot;best-hst-routine&quot;-contest on bodybuilding.com and went with that. I thought it would be fun to do slight variations like split-squat/full-squat or stiff-legged deadlift/snatch-grip deadlift. I didn't mind the fact that every day contains a &quot;different&quot; set, since a couple of basic compound movements like squat, deadlift, chin-up, dip and bent-over row are always present.

@Old and Grey

Thanks for all the info. I'm currently doing a routine consisting of squat alternating with deadlift, bench press alternating with dip, row alternating with chin-up, rear delt s, biceps, triceps, abs, leg curl, calf raise and shoulder press. I'm in my 5s and mostly do 2 sets, needing about 45 minutes. The last week I've tried it for five days and thought it was ok, didn't feel too burned out.
 
Unless you're training specifically to increase your pull off the floor for the snatch, I wouldn't do snatch grip deadlifts. The loads will be much lighter with a snatch grip.
 
I thought about simplifying my program, but one problem I see with a 5x-week-program is the amount of deadlifts, squats and bent-over-rows I will be doing. Bryan mentions in the FAQ that most people can only handle 2 exercises that target the lower back per week.

lets say I do

Squat
Bench
Bent-Over Row
Chin
Dip
Military Press
Barbell Curl

and alternate squats with deadlifts, leg curl and leg extension. I still have Bent-Over Row 5 times per week. Is that smart?
 
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